Alexander

7 minutes ago, Ashe. said:

how am I doing this?  you're putting words in my mouth. If someone explaining what romantic attraction is is a personal attack, you need to rethink identity. someone explaining romance should not invalidate you. 

 

Not everyone romantic wants these things. These are what is typically considered to be romantic activities; assuming that is what romance is and nothing else is kind of strange. Romance is all about being with a romantic partner, and sure doing romantic things with them, but what that entails can be as simple as "hang out with friends" and "go on vacation together" and "talk about our day" and "share our lives together" and things along those lines. Most couples stop dating at some point, not every couple gives gifts, and some couples don't celebrate valentines day. In fact, the stereotype is that men forget about the anniversary!

Are you trying to say that romantic attraction is wanting to participate romantically in someone else's life? I can agree with that.  But I don't agree that the things you listed are the end all be all of what that means. It's only the stereotype of what couples do. Couples share their life together, that's what it's all about. Being with someone else. 

Don't think of it as what teens do when dating; think about what adults do when married. 30, 40, 50 60 years of age. Do your parents go on dates? Do they give gifts outside of birthdays, Christmas, and anniversary? They probably don't. Mine don't. I don't think they even give gifts on anniversary, just go on an actual date for once. And I'm pretty sure they don't celebrate valentines day together. But they do do things together; they spend time with other couples as friends; they go do stuff together like plays and going for walks and going on day trips. They do things together as a pair. Is that what you do with your qpr? Do things together? Because that looks romantic. Why isn't it romantic? Do you feel like your partner matters to you in a meaningful and significant way? Why isn't that romantic?

 

This is no different from romance. Just saying. Romance looks like this too. 

 

I like kissing, but don't find it romantic. I don't like going on dates. I don't like giving each other gifts. Yet, I am romantic. I know I'm romantic because I desire a significant other person, I want someone who cares about what I did today, someone who cares when I feel bad. I want a best friend who is also my partner. Bottom line is, I want someone to spend time together with. Someone who is involved in my life more than a typical  friendship would be. 

 

This looks a lot like relationship anarchy, which is breaking down relationships and challenging the typical rules of such relationships. Defining a relationship with the person individually, not defined based off stereotype. 

Maybe you can't separate romantic and queerplatonic attraction, but I can. And it's not romantic, it literally has the word "platonic" in it. And here I end this conversation. We just can't understand eachother so it doesn't make any sense to continue. Just don't say that my feelings are romantic because they aren't. Just because it looks romantic to you doesn't mean that it's actually romantic. Things look different from different perspective Have a good day and just learn to respect and not question oriented aroaces and people in queerplatonic relationships.

21 minutes ago, Ashe. said:

why are you so trigggered? I'm trying to explain romantic attraction, not invalidate anything. if you think romantic attraction is something else, what is it? how does romantic attraction and queerplatonic attraction differ? imo if it looks romantic, it is romantic. @Alexander

I'm "triggered" because you're literally trying to invalidate my experience as an aroace individual and telling me that my label is pointless, on a forum related to aromanticism. You just experience being aromantic differently than me, and that's fine. For me, romantic attraction is when you want to go on dates with a person, you want to be in a romantic relationship with them, you want to give them romantically coded gifts, you want to celebrate valentines day in a romantic way, you want to do the things that couples do. Romantic attraction to someone = a desire to being romantically involved with another person. Not every strong emotional bond is romantic in nature. Just as platonic attraction and romantic attraction are separate, the same goes for romantic attraction and queerplatonic attraction. For me, queerplatonic attraction is a strong, emotional attraction to someone. Desire to spend time with them, because they are an interesting person, but not romantically. I trust them, so I tell them everything I feel. When I feel bad, they cuddle with me to make me feel better (again, sensual attraction doesn't equal romantic attraction). But neither of us has a desire to be involved romantically with the other. We don't want to kiss, go on romantic dates and give eachother flowers or chocolates and tell other people that we are a couple. Queerplatonic relationship isn't the same as romantic relationship. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it isn't true. Only people who are in a QPR can define their relationship.

@Ashe.

2 minutes ago, Ashe. said:

"Romantic attraction occurs when someone finds an emotional connection with another person, and this can include appreciating their personality, valuing their opinions, and looking to them for support." link

 

"attraction that makes people desire romantic contact or interaction with another person or persons." link

 

"Romantic attraction is a form of emotional attraction based on a desire for a romantic relationship, or doing romantic activities with a particular person. This can include things like being physically close, affectionate speech, living together, making lifelong commitment decisions, doing things together exclusively, valuing the relationship more than others, and other forms of romantic affection" link

"What Is Romantic Attraction? Understanding The Urge To Seek Out A Mate" "The most stripped-down definition of romantic attraction is that it is an emotional response which most people experience at one time or another. This feeling results in the desire for them to have a romantic relationship with the person who makes them feel that way." link

"Romantic attraction is an emotional response, which most people experience at one point or another, that results in a desire for a romantic relationship with the recipient" 

Romantic attraction can be based upon various traits, qualities, or aspects. Physical qualities, ... [and] Qualities that are not instantly available, such as psychology, genetics, and cultural influence more often lead to a romantic interest as opposed to sexual. This form of interest develops into attraction over time, depending on how each individual relationship evolves and the formation of an emotional connection with the person of interest." "Romantic relationships are typically defined by the involvement of romantic actions while disregarding any sexual actions. Romantic actions include dinners, movies, long walks on the beach, sharing hobbies, and even kissing or cuddling." link

"Romantic attraction is an emotional response that most people often feel that results in a desire for a romantic relationship with the person that the attraction is felt towards. " link

 

 

 

What is romantic attraction but the emotional experience that revolves around the desire for a relationship? if someone desires a relationship with someone else, and selects a partner based off that desire, they are experiencing romantic attraction.

 

 

@Alexander @Autumn

I don't experience romantic attraction. That's the whole point of me identyfing as aromantic. Please, stop trying to invalidate my identity just because you don't agree with me. I can see the difference between queerplatonic attraction and romantic attraction. And the one I'm experiencing towards my queerplatonic partner is definitely not romantic, because I'm fully aro, which mean I have never, ever experienced romantic attraction to any gender. The only people who can tell me what I'n feeling and what labels fit me are: me, myself and I. So stop it, please. I know what romantic attraction is, and I definitely never felt it. At least try to learn more about the term "queerplatonic" before responding to me like that, trying to convince me that my feelings are romantic in nature, even though they are clearly NOT. @Ashe.

I'm a pan-oriented aroace and I don't see how would this term divide aroace people. Not every aroace person experiences terriary attractions, but many do. Some people experience all of them, some only one or two, others none. And all of those people are valid. It's just that some people are happy with just one or a few labels, and others want to have a lot of specific labels because it makes them feel better with themselves. And I fall into that last category. You should use labels which make you feel comfortable with your own identity! Or maybe you don't want to use any labels besides "queer"  but you know you're aspec? That's cool too. You do you, and I'll do me, but we won't do eachother, probably. It's just that for some aroace folks terriary attractions are an important part of their identity so they choose to identify with the term "oriented aroace", and other don't care about it at all so they choose not to label themselves in that category. But in both cases, those people are both aroace and valid! More specific labels don't divide our community, they just give more options for people who like using more specific labels. Oriented or not, you're not any less of an aroace! I hope you understand what I mean.

19 hours ago, Ashe. said:

personally I don't get the point of the term. you're aro ace, you don't want an intimate relationship with anyone, so what is there to be oriented for? isn't that what orientation is about?

I'm pan-oriented, which means I experience all of terriary attractions towards other people regardless of their gender. What is there to be oriented for? QPR, for example. I'm a pan-oriented aroace happily in a QPR with a nonbinary person. I don't experience sexual and romantic attraction, but I still have queerplatonic attraction. And I still want a committed, intimate relationship, just not romantic or sexual in nature. I hope I answered your question right.

I'm glad you managed to figure things out! Nice to meet you and welcome to our community :D

13 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

I love how she had no idea what aromanticism was and then immediately went and complained about aros like she's met a ton of them lmao... ok

Sounds like she needs to get it together, cause if her emotional state is that dependent on someone she's barely talked to dating her or not... That's not healthy. And either way it sure the fuck ain't your problem. To her I say, get well soon asshole ?

uhm, maybe you're right. I just couldn't help but to feel guilty. I mean, someone cried because of me. but she probably could handle it a little bit better and be less rude...

1 hour ago, Erederyn said:

I'm sorry you experienced this, not a nice situation. Like the others, I agree that you didn't do anything wrong. It seems like you handled the situation decently. Her reaction is a reflection of her own issues rather than of you. It's just this unfortunate idea that people who don't reciprocate feelings are "heartless" or "being a jerk" or whatnot; the amatonormativity that makes people feel entitled to their romantic feelings for others. Sending you warm vibes, I hope you feel a bit better! 

oh... that's kinda sad. that's why I hate amatonormativity. and thank you. I was just confused and felt kind of down because of this little incident. thanks for kind words (:

4 hours ago, RepublicServicesVolunteer said:

To me, it sounds like this person has some sort of internalized trauma that they need to heal. Perhaps they have self-worth issues. Regardless, this issue is theirs, not yours. I wouldn't associate with this person anymore. I'd send them forgiveness from afar. Stay strong, my friend!

thank you. I'm really sorry if me not reciprocating her feelings somehow reminded her of past trauma or something... but there was no possible way I knew about it. I hope she will forget about it soon and find someone better who can love her back so she could be happy. but I don't think I even want to try and talk to her again after this happened so I guess you're right. I was never mad at her, I just couldn't understand her reaction.

5 hours ago, nonmerci said:

You did nothing wrong. In fact you were really calmand nice in my opinion. You even give her an explanation when you didn't have to.

I don't know her but from what you say it seems she has some issue. I don't think it is a normal way to react even for an alloromantic. It was very excessive. Really I think it came from her, not from you.

 

And as @Jot-Aro Kujosaid it is ironic that she didn't know what aro meant but then talked as if she met so much aros that she can tell you that guys are the worst. She clearly didn't know what she is talking about and was just mean. I know it is an easy thing to say but you shouldn't bother about someone who were so unfair to you.

well, yeah... I'm not happy about her blaming aromantic people just because I couldn't love her back. that was just mean. I really tried to handle it as best as I could, so thank you for noticing it.

Some girl with whom I only exchanged stares on the corridor just confessed to me that she has a crush on me. I only know her name and what lectures she attended last year (I am in college), we talked only like "hi, how are you?" and that's all. When I gently told her that unfortunately I can't reciprocate her romantic feelings and apologized to her, she started crying and spitting out things like "why? are you gay?", "am I ugly?", "you don't like me? but you were so nice to me!", "can't you just give me a chance? please, I'll do everything" etc. So I held her hands and I told her "I'm afraid it's literally impossible, I'm really, really sorry". I started to search for tissues in my bag and I wanted to give them to her so she could wipe her tears. She took them but just clenched them in hands instead of using them. She looked really sad so I touched her shoulder and apologized again, then I wanted to go home but she told me to stop and tell her why is it impossible for me to even try dating her, then she will leave and never talk to me again. I was tired so I said "I'm aromantic". She asked me what is that so I explained "I can't fall in love with anyone because I'm not romantically attracted to any gender, but I don't want you to feel sad and disappointed... So I guess we could become friends instead?". She got angry all of sudden and screamed at me "I don't want to be your friend! I wanted a boyfriend, not a friend! You aromantic people are so selfish, destructive and heartless, especially guys, like you! People want their love to be reciprocated, damn it!". Then she threw at me the pack of tissues I gave her before and ran away.

I understand that for alloromantic people it's probably hard to get rejected from their crush, but still... What she said was just mean and not true at all. I literally tried to calm her down and explain everything as good as I could, I apologized a few times but it still wasn't enough. Why couldn't she just understand that I'm not attracted to her and I will never be? This situation really screwed up my frame of mind in general.

So can some of you try to comfort me? Or at least explain why was she so harsh on me? I want to understand what I did wrong... Who made a mistake? Me, her, neither or both of us? I'm really, really confused.

12 hours ago, Raven97 said:

Hi everyone,

I am also new to this site (and AVEN & Acebook).
I finally decided to figure out which labels matched with who I am and on AVEN I found a link to this forum so now I'm here.
So, I identify as grey aroace. This because due to a lack of crushes/squishes I have no clue if am am demi or cupio, so I decided to stick with grey for now.

It would be nice to get to know similar people, both international and fellow Dutch people. 

 

Hello! Nice to meet you and welcome to our forum! I hope you will enjoy your stay.

I'm not Dutch but oh well. My name is Alexander, but my friends often just call me Alex. I identify as a pan oriented aroace. When it comes to microlabels I'm aegosexual and questioning if I'm aegoromantic too or just aro. I'm also romance ambivalent and ambiamorous. Currently I'm in a QPR with a nonbinary person so I also use the label "diamoric" to describe our queerplatonic relationship. I'm a guy so my pronouns are he/him. My personality type is ENFP. Idk what else to write.

it's nice to see that more and more people are coming to our forum :D

@kikicita Thank you. I really enjoyed reading about your journey too. I'm glad that you found a label you're comfortable with.

So in my case it went like this... I was never really interested in romantic relationships. I had one "crush" on my best friend. But it wasn't an actual crush OR a squish. At that time I thought that I was a butch lesbian (I was a trans guy in big denial, I mistook being seen as masculine for being a lesbian, I didn't knew gender ≠ attraction/sexuality) and the "falling in love with your close female friend" was a common thing in the wlw community. So I just chose her to be my crush, because she was one of the cutest and most feminine human beings. I also loved her (platonically of course). I looked even more masculine standing next to her, which was giving me a lot of gender euphoria (people often were "mistaking" me for a boy and thought we were dating). Soon I found out that I wasn't in fact attracted to girls, I was just using them as the feminine background so my masculinity and strength would stand out more. I started to actually think I  may be trans when I saw that other lesbians, even butch and tomboy ones didn't enjoy being called a boy. That's when my egg started to crack. When I figured out that I was in fact a trans guy, I thought I was straight. But it didn't last long until I noticed that I don't have a thing for girls. But I didn't like guys either. So I thought I was pansexual for a long time, because I felt that way to everyone (yeah, my dumb self thought that not feeling any attraction towards any specific gender means being pan). I got into some relationships (I was in six romantic relationships to be exact, two with girls, one with a nonbinary person, two with guys and one with an agender person. but all those relationships were initiated by the other person. it was always like this: they confessed to me, and I either didn't want to hurt their feelings or thought "maybe if I give them a chance I'll actually fall in love with them" so I agreed to all those confessions) because I was so deep in denial about me being aroace. When I found out about the "asexual" label, I thought that was probably me. I looked more into the ace spectrum and found out I was in fact asexual (aegosexual to be exact). So I identified as panromantic asexual for a while. But then I found out about aromanticism. And in that moment something clicked in my brain. I couldn't explain what exactly I was feeling. It just felt right. I instantly knew it was me. I almost cried. I was like "there's a word? I'm not weird or just the only person on earth who feels like this?".

So... It took me whole 5 years of questioning my sexuality to find out I am in fact romance ambivalent (my feelings and opinion on romance change over time, for example I'm feeling romance indifferent now) aromantic and sex averse aegosexual. Yeah, now I'm 100% sure I'm a pan oriented aroace trans guy, I also know that I'm aegosexual and ambiamorous. Now I'm happy in a QPR with a nonbinary person. I'm glad I finally found out who I was, even if it took me 5 years of denial and constant looking for a label that would fit me.

How was your journey? You can share it here (:

Okay, so... I'm a pan oriented aroace and when it comes to microlabels I'm 100% sure I'm a sex averse aegosexual with medium/high libido (I'm not sure yet). But how do I tell if I'm also aegoromantic or just a romance indifferent aro? I know I'm one of those, but I'm not sure which one. Are there any signs of being aegoromantic? Is there some kind of "you may be aegoromantic if" checklist? It was easy for me go figure out I was aegosexual but I have a problem with figuring out if I'm just aro or if I'm also aegoromantic. So I'm kinda stuck on this one. I would appreciate any help from you guys.

I would love to see an outgoing, extroverted, confident and affectionate aro/ace character. I just see the stereotype that aro/ace people are introverted, overly serious... Some even seem like a robot or something. And I'm an opposite of those stereotypes (ENFP aroace guy here). When I came out as aroace some people were like "but you're a literal magnet for people, you're the life of the party!", "you seem too extroverted and opened about your feelings to be aroace", "are you serious? but you are so nice and affectionate", "but you're so talkative, funny and you even jokingly flirt with people" or "I would never guess that you're aroace... you're not innocent or shy like most of them". Comments like that are harming aspec people and make unhealthy stereotypes. Seeing an aro/ace character in media who denies all those stereotypes (or at least most of them) could help allos understand that those comments are wrong. Also, I would love to see an aroace character with a more outgoing personality so I can relate to them more.

okay so I'm kinda confused, please hear me out... I was indentifying as pan oriented, sex repulsed and romance indifferent aroace for a long time now. But I've read what "aegosexual" and "aegoromantic" is and I relate to most of signs of being aego. I enjoy shipping in media or reading sex scenes in books or manga, however I feel very repulsed by the thought of having sex myself. And I'm rather neutral about having a romantic relationship and I don't really want to be in one but I like reading romantic fanfiction/manga/comics and I feel happy when main characters get into a relationship etc. So I'm like 90% sure I'm both aegosexual and aegoromantic. But I still want to identify as aroace, not really as aego. Can I still identify as oriented aroace even though I'm not strictly aroace but aego? The term "angled aroace" doesn't suit me either because I don't experience romantic or sexual attraction... So wouldn't that make me aroace anyway? I'm just confused and I don't know if I can still use the label "pan oriented aroace" even though I'm aego. I just think that this label fits me a lot more than aegosexual aegoromantic. I just don't feel such strong connection with the "aego" label as I feel to "pan oriented aroace" label (there is a small connection tho). So am I still allowed to use the term oriented aroace to describe myself? Can I use both "oriented aroace" AND "aegosexual aegoromantic" labels at the same time? I really need help sorting this out.

On 6/22/2021 at 7:47 AM, kikicita said:

Thank you Alexander! 
Oh really? Cool! I rarely find people who have the same interests as me.
Books are good too, I like them but it’s hard for me to read them, I prefer to write them hahah. Would you recommend me some books that you liked tho? I’d love to start reading more since I want to write some books :) 

Sure! Actually, I'm currently writing a fantasy series which I hope I'll release in the future. When it comes to books, I mainly love horrors, thrillers, crime, fantasy and adventure. Sometimes philosophy is cool too. Some of the authors I love are: Stephen King (I recommend "It", "Insomnia", "The Stand", "The Shining" and "Pet Sematary") Terry Pratchett (the whole "Discworld" series), Tolkien (Hobbit, Lord Of The Rings), literally anything by Sebastian Fitzek (I loved Therapy and The Nightwalker the most tho), Paulo Coelho (Aleph, Eleven Minutes), Dazai Osamu (No Longer Human, The Setting Sun), Brandon Mull (the "Fablehaven" series) and Andrzej Sapkowski ("The Witcher" series).

Hello, Kiara! Welcome to our forum. I hope you will enjoy your stay. Also, I have the exact same interests as you (well, maybe except films, I rarely watch them, I prefer books) c:

I don't know if there is a term for that but I'm fine with both polyam and monogamous QPRs. Currently I'm in a monogamous one, for now. Maybe our relationship will became an open one in the future, you never know. But now we both are happy as it is.

Hello, nice to meet you. Welcome to our forum! I'm 18 years old pan-oriented aroace guy. I also like skateboarding and anime (:

On 6/15/2021 at 3:54 PM, Dethsdream said:

actually gravitate towards rock music too (especially classic rock) because I find that a lot of the music is more interesting lyrically than modern stuff is if that makes sense at all lol I really like Led Zeppelin and Metallica, for example! 

Oh, so our tastes aren't that different. I love Led Zeppelin and Metallica! Metal and rock music is often more interesting than pop music. I think that pop music focuses on romance more often than rock, punkrock or metal music.

1 minute ago, Dethsdream said:

Aww I’m a huge fan of Queen and this was sad to hear ? looking at the lyrics, yeah I can see that it could be romantically coded. Also it was apparently written by John Deacon for his wife so definitely ?

Bruno Mars us a song about friends which I don’t think is romance-coded, though! It’s called Count on Me. I feel like this thread is inspiring me to make a friendship playlist ?

Yeah, I know that one from Bruno Mars! I like the lyrics, I'm not a huge fan of his music though. I usually only listen to rock, old punk rock or metal music. Sometimes anime openings (especially those from Attack On Titan, they are awesome), that's all I guess.

Ikr?? Like, I've been listening to "Best friend" by Queen and I thought that it was just a platonic song to show affection to your good friend. It turned out that it was actually romantically coded.

Well, I am in a QPR. Me and my partner often tell eachother "I love you". I also say "I love you" a lot to my friends. I really like saying it because I'm sure these people know I mean it in a platonic/alterous way.

On 5/26/2021 at 1:09 AM, Rainy Robin said:

I've heard a lot of people who are aroace and agender say that they feel really disconnected from the entirety of gender because of their disconnect to romantic or sexual attraction. Since romance and sex are usually coded by society as very gendered, some aroaces feel alienated from gender and identify as agender instead.

Well, I'm not agender but I'm a trans man. I feel very connected with being aromantic and asexual. But I don't really think that me being transgender is an important part of my identity. I would rather live in stealth mode, I just don't feel the need to tell people that I'm trans and I'm definitely not one of those trans people who are really proud of being trans and buy trans pride merch. Most people think that I'm cis because I want to be seen as such and I don't go to a pride parade with a trans flag. I'm just not really connected to being transgender but I feel a huge connection with being aro and ace (especially aro, it's the most important part of my identity to me). I have a plenty of aro and ace pride merch because I'm proud to be aroace. I don't care about me being trans tho, I just don't see this as a big deal.

Welcome to our forum! If you want to know something more about types of attraction, aspec terms, signs of being aro/ace or aromanticism and asexuality in general, don't be afraid to ask! We will gladly help you figure yourself out.

12 hours ago, roboticanary said:

Its good to hear of some of the money spent at pride going to independent people making things through passion.

Thank you ?

I mean, what's your relation with romance? Personally I think I'm romance indifferent - I don't feel very repulsed by romantic things and I don't feel anything at all when I kiss people or call them pet names. I just don't feel anything, neither good or bad. 

However, my opinion about romance in media changes over time. Sometimes I'm just so fucking tired of useless romance forced into the movie. I call it "romance tired". On the other hand, I love some romantic ships and I love shipping characters in shows/books (I ship them both in romantic and (queer)platonic ways). So when it comes to romance in media I'm just changing between romance tired and romance positive all the time. It's sometimes frustrating. 

When it comes to real life romance, I'm indifferent almost all the time. Sometimes I have those days when I think that maybe I'm missing out and I start to have a mental breakdown wondering how does romantic attraction feel. But those days are really rare, I had maybe a week of those in this whole year. Otherwise I'm a proud romance indifferent aromantic guy. 

So basically irl I'm romance indifferent, I just don't care. When it comes to media, sometimes I'm tired of romance and sometimes I enjoy it (I don't really like romance comedies or any movies focused purely on romance simply because I find them boring, I have a few exceptions tho. But I like to ship characters when I think that they suit eachother. I don't like when movies force romance into the plot without a reason though, because it's often between characters whose relationship just doesn't make sense to me and I would rather see them as friends or even enemies because I don't ship them at all).

What's your opinion on romance? Are you positive, indifferent, repulsed, complicated or just tired?