bydontost

Just popping in to say that "attraction" in general is useful for me; the term platonic attraction isn't sth I apply to my experience, but I use the word "admiration" to describe similar things sometimes; feeling is a much much more broad category than attraction and one where attraction fits too

Honestly I haven't seen anyone be confused about this. in my experience people get confused, but mostly about how it relates to polyamory. i dont think nonamory was supoosed to be about any attraction. anyway, this is not a terminology discussion, or is it..?? And I'm not surprised in the least, since so much of it is romo coded and what is romo and what isn't to an individual person is highly subjective

sigh so I think that the problem may be in the interaction of most common, or the loudest perspectives and uhh insecurity or the desire for people not to assume anything about them..?? and the most common/loudest voices don't have to be the same for every person either. so one person is gonna see someone talk about their nonamorous, 0 attraction aromanticism and think "oh this is *the* aro experience", while another is gonna see someone talk about squishes and qprs and think that's aromanticism for everyone. but well, idk, that's where I think the insecurity comes in for some (that'd be the questions "can i be aro if [insert sth other than "i dont relate to aromanticism"]" or the desire for people not to assume anything incorrect about them (that'd be, in an environment where qprs are talked about a lot, terms like nonamorous or aplatonic) as for what we can do about it, bc I too think that too many terms probably aren't helping much, other than helping the long discussions about what a certain term mean, I'm not sure, except for on every forum post on some topic there should be someone saying "oh no, this is not my experinece at all". or having contact with diverse aros... or using language like "some aros" instead of just "aros" when you wanna talk about some generalized experiences...

that may be happening because people usually talk about experiences they have, not the ones they don't have. so its possible you'd see people going "oh I have a squish" and others replying "yep me too!!", to which it'd be weird to reply "haha and I don't get squishes", creating a view that people are only talking about getting squishes and not talking about not having them at all anyway, getting squishes is definitely not a thing that happens to every aro

Great! And I'm unsure what you mean by this, is it correct to assume this is not a suggestion to change anything on the website, but a matter of personal identity? Oops, thanks, fixed that. Thanks for reporting this too, we are working out what made the links (and anchors) break this way.

On the behalf of the team working on the Aromantic-spectrum Union for Recognition, Education, and Advocacy (AUREA) website, I'm happy to announce that the beta version of the website is up at www.aromanticism.org! Since we're in beta, the site isn't yet a final product and to make it so we'd like to hear back from the community. We'd like to invite you to visit the website so you can take a look or read what is there and if you notice something could be corrected - please inform us about that by writing to us at contact@aromanticism.org. We'd be happy to receive feedback about substantive content, like resources or FAQ, though if you see a broken link or a site functionality issue comes up, you can report that too. If you take time to help us out this way - big thanks! If not - the beta will last 2 weeks, so you may come visit us after the launch of the final version at aromanticism.org!

It didn't occur to us initially to invite beta readers, because we didn't expect the site launch to immediately catch the attention of everyone outside the aro community, just the insiders so to speak, so we were going to accept suggestions and feedback then. For the past few days we've been thinking about changing that though, because it's true that any errors that could find their way in could decrease credibility if the website was presented as a final version from the start. So we were thinking of starting with a short beta period for the whole website, possibly on a different domain, a link to which would be shared on the forums and with selected people from discord and tumblr. We'd ask for feedback (tangible recommendations of what could be improved) in the e-mail form so that it's easier to keep track of and after addressing that feedback and making the changes, we'd launch the site in a final-ish version (as we'd be still open to feedback then).

As @bananaslug said, our goals right now are as follows: As we mentioned before, we want this website to act like an official resource for education about aromanticism and a way to connect various aromantic discussions happening in different spaces. This first aim and trying to get contact from media through the website especially means that we'd be treated as representatives, as a way for people who aren't aromantic to get insight into aromantic perspectives from an inside source. That said, we will invite others to contribute or volunteer and represent the organization as a whole, should they wish to. We don't want to be the only representatives (i.e., ignoring others or pretending we know everything) but our team is made up of people who are ready to devote the time and energy to do their research and act as spokespeople for official purposes. We'll have an "About" page, which will introduce everyone on the team, so it'll be clear who is actually working on the website, in what capacity and what specific input they have (for example in terms of non-sam identities). We can include the basis on which people were chosen for the team. We won't include anything about not being the chosen representatives, because this would just undermine the website in the eyes of people coming from the outside of aro communities. We'd rather work to really represent aromantics as well as possible. It's true, one of main aims of this initiative's is to represent aromantics, because we think we (aros) need that. We are monitoring this thread - if you have a question, feel free to ask it and we'll answer. What's the question?

For me, the problems I have with my aromanticism come from the society around me, not the fact that (at least for now) my aromantic plans for life include staying single nonromantically and otherwise. So, yeah, some of my friends may move on, but maybe not everyone and I'll make some new ones, I'll have my family... It'll hurt when someone implies I should give romance a shot, but I'll know that I'm living a life true to myself without it. Like idk, I think not being depressed helps a lot - I'm not sure what the future has in store for me, but I don't see it as bleak..?? This may sound like empty words, but hell, there are people out there who share the same values as you, who would think of your friendship as precious, even though it may be harder to find them, when more people are focused on romantic relationships. So uh yeah. And romo love still isn't the cure to everything, ensuring that the people who feel it will have Their Person - relationships don't work out, feeling are not reciprocated, feelings fade. So idk, I don't think we're getting such a bad deal I guess

Hmm, you mean like, a lithromantic person who gets het crushes, but the attraction then goes weird, fades, or there's no need to be in a relationship..?? On a principle I'd say that since lithro is an aromantic spectrum identity and aros are queer, then yeah. I guess it depends if you feel queer because of it though too

Again, we're not asking you to trust us at this point, but to be willing to suspend your distrust when you see the website and then judge if we're doing good or if we need to work on allo aro inclusiveness more. I think that actions speak louder than words and in this case, the actions is the website and I'm not sure if our assurances that (as one example) we all don't see aromanticism as a subset of asexuality would convince you. Thank you for the suggestion of issues we should be mindful of, I can happily tell you that everyone on the team is familiar with alloaroworlds and hir work on tumblr. At this point I'm not sure further conversation is leading anywhere.

From what I understood, Mark would be more comfortable with the majority of the team being allo aro, because they're allo aro themself and it'd probably protect allo aros' interests better. We can't provide that comfort for Mark, but I can share what the criteria were for choosing people for the team, so maybe it's more understandable why identity wasn't the most important. First of all, I and the team wanted people who we knew and trusted, as the initiative is more serious than a blog, involves money and our personally identifying information being shared. Then, we wanted people who were active in the aromantic community, informed, contributing to it, people who could really do the work that we set out to do in a way that would be good for the community. We also looked for people who were facilitating discussions and stayed reasonable during them, were willing to hear all arguments and try and reconcile multiple points of view instead of jumping to conclusions, as well as be responsible. And we also considered identities. Out of the people who met all those criteria and were contacted, we gathered our team. One allo aro who we asked couldn't participate in the project and we're still waiting for a response from another one.

Understandable, however at the moment we don't have a majority of aro allo leadership and identity was a secondary criterion when picking members. We haven't yet, but we're going to ask them about their policies about including allo aros. Due to the nature of this project, it may be not finished when the site goes live, but we're going to work on that. As for the links, yeah, what I meant was that the references would be to ace-first sites/groups/communities. Our glossary isn't going to be a collection of links and we're right now in the process of tracking down coinages, divergences in use and all that. We're especially aware of the issue with quoiromantic and its definitions. And our plan is to be that resource for all matters aro. As for the resources about romantic coded behaviour, romance repulsion, monogamy repulsion and talking about aromanticism with allos - thanks for bringing those up, we have resources in mind for romance repulsion and explaining aromanticism to allos, we'll write in romantic coded behavior as a project and as for monogamy repulsion, I'm not sure if it's an aromantic issue, could you elaborate/provide a source?

We're going to be an aromanticism site, not asexual + aromantic site, which means asexuality itself won't be a focus. We'll also have some resources for allosexual aros. Since aromantic communities in general are less established than ace ones and ace ones have some resources on aromanticism, we'll end up with a lot of links to ace+aro resources (for example in the "in-person groups" section, which has groups for aces and aros together). The solution to that is that we'll specify which resources are specific to aros and which are aspec, so that people who want to interact with the aro-specific ones will be able to access them easily. And, as @eatingcroutons pointed out, I myself am allosexual, so this perspective is definitely not going to be overlooked and while there may be a disproportion in resources, in the informational sections we will be including allosexual and asexual parts of the aros' experience both.

The aro website is happening! We'd be grateful for help with the costs for domain, hosting and e-mail, so if you can and want to support this project your money would be very much appreciated. You can chip in here: https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8e0zrbpbIW The website is going to aim to be an official front for aromanticism, featuring faq, resources, e-mail contact for press/media, glossary and such. Currently the team is me, Magni @Magni, Neir @running.tally, HotRamen @HotRamen, and @bananaslug aka aroacepagans on tumblr. We'd be happy to answer questions should any arise too

I think it always has been around, tho it was not treated as an universal phenomenon (and sometimes may have been undesirable if it got in the way of an arranged marriage for example). Right now it's treated as something that is universal and that's what's Not Cool about it. I also think it's a manmade concept in the way that certain feelings in our society are interpreted as romantic and we're taught to think about them that way. Anddd as for if it's more simple or no - idk, it just is different

A bit, yeah, but I'm also not out to a lot of people as aromantic (it's mostly trusted friends). Sometimes I don't wanna say aromantic when I feel that this would receive more doubt that even "I don't want to date" does sometimes. I want to bring visibility to the orientation, but as always it's a choice between being true to yourself, talking to people on the level they're more likely to understand and not wanting to be doubted. This is before I read the link - but it seems impossible for me to gain acceptance without visibility...?? People need to *know* we exist before they can accept us. I think that the end goal is "acceptance", but it can't be done without visibility...?? Or do you mean to say that since "acceptance" is not clearly articulated as the end goal, our only goal is visibility?? (this may get an edit as I read the link) edit: nope, doesn't need an edit, except to add that: is the acceptance from the 5 people in the shadows better than visibility and other people who will find out about the orientation being able to find acceptance in orientation-specific communities...?? to me the second option is better tbh, bc the people who want to hate us will do it anyway.

I wanted to suggest another one - aurea (arospec union for recognition, education and advocacy)?? it is a word, in latin (better than english tho) and an acronym for a software company

Yes sure to both

I'm not entirely sure it's feasible, some acronyms already existing do double up... It'd be preferable, but I'm not sure if necessary Okay, point, I think we (well, @running.tally ) came up with something that is alright and not an acronym I think it'd be hard to pronounce, at least as a word, without spelling it out (unless you meant for it to be spelled out..??) Other options (my faves) include: ANREA (Arospec Network for Recognition, Education and Advocacy), ACARE (Arospec Community Alliance for Recognition and Education), AURA (Arospec Union for Recognition and Advocacy), ACURE (Arospec Community Union for Recognition and Education)

@Prismatangle Thank you and I'm sorry too that I got so mad at you first instead of suggesting a change. It seems that I didn't understand what you meant by your message (that you've been there for the discussions about those certain types of attraction before) and instead understood that you're connected to and informed on the discussions (in the aromantic circles) now. My comment was about the fact I thought you referred to aspec spaces as they are right now (ace and/or aro) as "ace/aspec" and I'm sorry I didn't show more patience. Same here I think that's a separate issue too ? Could it be described in the language of relationship favourable/indifferent/averse...??

Yeah I follow those discussions, it seems quite a lot is breaking down over the attraction and other factors that may influence an identity. This is another symptom things could be reworked a bit I think. I thought about the idea of an alternative suffix, yeah. Although it's not really my place to have a say on which one. ...Could be that people might not like the double vowels, though. Idk if I don't want to go back on this actually, because it's so vague. This again would lead to the "but attraction/identity/preferences??" questions probably. The double vowel is why I put the "-" there Not a fix for pronunciation though.

Phew, so, I think that the issues that were supposed to be explained by sam, but weren't very structured in sam are answers to the following questions: Attraction: What kind of attractions do you experience? What is the pattern of this attraction? Are those types attractions you have experienced as cohesive? Identity: What do you identify as? What is that identity influenced by (attraction/other factors)? And answers to those questions and concepts around them could be structured more. More talk in a comment here: https://theacetheist.wordpress.com/2019/03/20/remodeling-on-the-reclamation-of-the-term-split-attraction-model/#comment-9651

I read @Coyotes post on their blog in the meantime and I'm actually ready to agree that sam is not enough to capture those subtleties, no matter how we rename it... I hope that wouldn't make things harder, but we need something to explain how all those attractions can influence identities and how identities don't have to be about attractions and all that. You're not sure where you fit in those 4 categories Coyote suggested - maybe there's another one, I now notice it could be harder for someone who does think of their attraction as fluid to pinpoint where they fit, so that's something to think about. I'm definitely in the divergent pieces, multiple orientations, but it doesn't feel like a fractured experience - the pieces intersect, interweave to form a single sense of self.

That's what the way I've been using it, yes. You clearly were using a different meaning, so of course you're going to (eta:) misunderstand me if you don't apply the sense I mean to my words (/end eta). only in the sense that you experience that attraction, yes. Can you have attraction without labelling it?? Yes, you don't have a problem with this. Can you have orientation (in the meaning pattern of attraction) without labelling it?? Apparently not, even though it has the same meaning to how I use them. This is tripping you up. You don't use them the same way I do, but can you let go of the way you're using it for a second and understand what I'm saying?? The answer to that question you asked above is still: yes if you mean orientation = pattern of attraction, and no if you mean orientation = identity. I mean it in the first sense. I'm not sure I understand - you mean that aros and aces only talk about the term sam to say they don't apply it to themselves...?? Or that it's mostly useful in setting apart aces from aros?? Mostly looks like those are the groups. The only issue I have is this first part of this sentence and the use of "split": Hmm this is sth I'd have to think about tbh...?? I guess my understanding was that patterns of attraction(s) itself(s) were influenced by things like that tbh. Should throw in N there too, to make "damn" ?. But I think that to name it accurately it'd have to be like "Possible Attraction Model, You Don't Have to Apply It to Yourself, But It's an Option, Please Remember You Don't Have to Label Your Identity According To This Model", which is to say - it's not useful for everyone, the name is probably never going to reflect all the problems people have with it, while the name split attraction model remains a bit unfortunate. Differentiated Attraction Model - "so you have to differentiate??". Separable Attraction Model - "so it's possible to separate in everyone??". Split Orientation Model - "so everyone's orientation is made out of different components??" or "so everyone's patterns of attractions can be separated from each other??". Anyway, maybe people who only have one orientation (either in terms of identity or attraction) could just say they're something"-oriented" as clarification..?? Like, "I'm aromantic, in the sense that I'm a-oriented"..??