Lokiana

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4 hours ago, Finn said:

being attracted to feminine aligned nonbinary people - and feminine aligned isn't a great term btw

they call themselves feminine aligned. THEY ALSO disconnect themselves from womanhood  and female experience. it’s not a mutually exclusive description. 
 

4 hours ago, Finn said:

similar gender attraction

same gender attraction comes from the Christian church. please stop using it. 
 

4 hours ago, Finn said:

so what is it about nonbinary people that is so appealing and attractive that you can literally only find in us?

you could make this same argument about men or women, but to be frank, it’s that I know these people very closely and that makes the attraction stronger. 
 

that’s it.  
 

also I’ve clearly outlined that I’m attracted to a man? It’s not just y’all? 
 

4 hours ago, Finn said:

and having had certain sexual or romantic experiences with individual nonbinary people in the past doesn't indicate anything about who you might meet in the future who could express their gender completely differently than the ones you dated.

no, but out of recognition of my PAST and CURRENT partners, I know based on my lived experience that I am attracted to at least 1 man and at least 2 non-binary people. I have no idea if I’d be attracted to a non-binary person, or a woman, or a man, until I actually know who they are. 

If I suddenly feel attraction to someone who falls outside the labels I’ve given myself then I will...change the labels. My attraction isn’t gonna shrivel up and die, I’m just going to edit how I define who I am. 

I’ve quite literally redefined my identity in the past year just because....I felt attraction that I thought I didn’t feel, so I changed the terms I use. That’s allowed, last I checked. 
 

just like I’m not automatically attracted to every man in the universe I’m not going to be attracted to every non-binary person in the universe? If someone tells me they’re non-binary and I wasn’t attracted to them...I’m still not gonna be attracted to them.

4 hours ago, Finn said:

That's why so many of us are wary of cis people who say that and why so many of us feel they're fetishistic.

I mean fair enough? Like it’s fine to be wary? If a bi person says “I’m attracted to men and nb people” and you want to watch out for signs they’re fetishizing you, that’s completely understandable. 
 

4 hours ago, Finn said:

and before you accuse me of "invalidating" you or your partners/exes, i'm asking this as a dual-aligned nonbinary person who leans toward female and is read as a woman.

I hope I’ve answered all your questions. In summary: I identify based on who I’m attracted to now. I’m not psychic, I can’t predict the future, and I have no idea who I’ll meet or if I’ll be attracted to them. In general, I’m attracted to man, and non-binary people (2), so I’m bi. Maybe I’ll find more people I’m strongly attracted to! Who knows - bi is a flexible label, so I’ve got a lot of wiggle room there. 
 

Other than that, your argument is full of fallacies and further I can read your status updates, and I know you’re not engaging in good faith, so this is where I will end my discussion. 

On 11/12/2020 at 7:10 AM, Finn said:

Also, are you cis? If so, you shouldn't be speaking over a nonbinary bi person on this at all. And if not, your opinion doesn't cancel out mine.

Until you quit invalidating my identity as a bi person who is attracted to men, and several feminine aligned non-binary people, and has discussed with them the appropriate way to identify, your opinion does not cancel out my identity. 

On 11/7/2020 at 12:16 PM, Finn said:

which is untrue and invalidating and partially because anyone who feels attraction can be attracted to nonbinary people

um. no? 

i have met very few "strictly" straight or gay people who are attracted to nonbinary people. it's certainly possible, but many of my friends simply are not attracted to people outside of their preferred people(whether that be men or women).

On 11/7/2020 at 12:16 PM, Finn said:

nonbinary means a thousand different things to a thousand different people and we all look and present differently. like three other people might use the same pronouns and dress the same way as me, and one might identify as a gender nonconforming woman, one might identify as a gender nonconforming man, and one might identify as a different kind of nonbinary than I do. also, another nonbinary person might identify exactly like I do, but look completely different, present completely differently, have different goals for their transition, use different pronouns.

is there not a varying, widespread definition of womanhood or manhood, with different "kinds"?

Like, I have seen a lot of nonbinary people (specifically, one of my close personal friends), identify as gay because they are attracted solely to women and nonbinary people. When I describe my identity, I say I'm bi and attracted to people of any gender (men, women, and several of my nonbinary friends who present their gender in various ways). 

It is simply not possible to acknowledge every nonbinary gender when I talk about my attraction to people but it is also incorrect to assume I am only attracted to men and women. Saying I'm attracted to nonbinary people is the best grouping that I have found that covers all of my people - just like I could specifically say I am attracted to a specific type of man, I can tell you what it is (skinny medium sized height kind of nerdy, preferably can fit into my hoodies), but the best grouping is to just say men.

On 11/7/2020 at 6:58 AM, Finn said:

Can we just agree that you can identify as and reclaim queer if you're either non-cis or attracted to your same gender, or obviously both?

Bi people can be attracted to other genders and not their own and still be considered queer, because they're still bi. This is biphobic language.

Hid posts in this thread due to a discussion about the validity of sensual/platonic/aesthetic attraction. We do not debate the validity of other people's identities.

Seconded. ?

On 5/5/2020 at 9:17 PM, rabbitastic said:

She is demisexual and does not feel at all connected to asexuality; she doesn't understand how she could. I also  do not understand how demiromantic people ,for example, would feel connected to me as an aromantic person. We only feel connected by our queerness; it's not a stronger bond than we feel with other folks under the umbrella.

I'm demiromantic and currently a bit...irritated with this whole statement. Every demiromantic person is different and your roommate does not speak for everyone who identifies as demi-.

I identify with aromanticism because I experience things like aromantic people do. I did not experience crushes and was mocked for it from the time I was in middle school all the way through my senior year in high school. I was mocked for stating that I might not want to get married. I was literally isolated from my friend group and sent home crying because of my aromanticism. Connecting to people on a lot of romantic ideas is a weird concept to me. The way I approach relationships is different, and aromantic communities have helped me with that. Figuring out I was demiromantic was a hard thing, because I identified with aromanticism for so long before I ever experienced romantic attraction.

In short: 

On 5/6/2020 at 8:39 PM, Coyote said:

It's really not your business to go telling certain aces that they're not really ace.

And it's really not your business to go telling certain aros they're not really aro. 

On 5/5/2020 at 9:17 PM, rabbitastic said:

This concept makes me think of the Kinsey scale which is/was a  sexuality scale that excluded a lot of people and placed people on a spectrum with people who were very dissimilar. I haven't seen a bisexual spectrum being used everywhere like the a-spectrums even though bisexuality could more easily be placed on a sliding scale with a 2 on one side and an infinity symbol on the opposite end. :T

It's called the "m-spec" or "multi-spec". It's not a scale, and it encompasses all identities (bi, pan, polysexual/romantic, etc.) that feel attraction to more than one gender.

2 hours ago, Crimson Square said:

I am... not demi-bi? I just have a plethora of issues that make acting on sexual attraction not something I'm willing to chance, a lot of the time?

I’m demi bi, so it’s interesting to hear about your experience from my perspective. Sorry for the non clarity. ?

1 hour ago, Scoop said:

Did you want to hear my thoughts @Lokiana? I have a few. What's the book about too?

Of course! I’d love to hear them!

It’s futuristic, somewhat post apocalyptic Sci fi- a lot of the technology was destroyed by a massive wave of computer viruses...in the scavenging afterwards, someone broke open a lab that held viruses (I’d like to point out he wrote this before corona)...basically, there’s only small pockets of humanity left, and a bunch of travel via airships. The main character is a badass who repairs the technology that keeps the airships running, and it goes from there. 

(I’ve read all 150+ pages and love this book, seriously. It’s kind of awesome.)

18 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

-Fictional characters are often more attractive than real people, because there's just so much less trouble involved. A cute girl might fall in love with me, or ditch me for a romantic partner, but Mai Valentine and her hot motorcycle have never and will never do me wrong ?

Amen to that.

4 hours ago, Crimson Square said:

18 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Despite the stereotype that allo aros have lots of sex, and the stereotype that bis have "more to choose from" or whatever, for a lot of allo aros it's actually very difficult to access sex. If you're romance repulsed, not the sort of person who likes parties or bars, and don't use hookup apps, there's really very little opportunity for sexual encounters, and a lot of allo aros have never had sex at all even at ages when most other allosexual folks would have. Many allo aros also are extremely selective about who they hook up with, for fear of the possibility of their partner """""catching feelings""""" and then blaming them for not reciprocating- Even when a relationship is explicitly agreed to be only sexual, not romantic, there's still sort of a societal expectation that if one party changes their mind, the other party has some obligation to accept this.

Seconded. The thought of someone else liking me romantically and getting blamed for not reciprocating when all I wanted was to be friends quite literally can make me shiver in fear, not even because of romance repulsion, but simply because I get attached and losing people over something like that is a horrible thought.

Interesting to hear about this from a demi-bi perspective, because I'm also super picky about who I have sex with because for most of the reasons stated above, and I'm in a romantic relationship.

4 hours ago, Crimson Square said:

My bi-ness often doesn't seem to... affect my day-to-day life because while the attraction is there, it's not something I really feel comfy acting upon, most of the time? Which might or might not change. That said, it's still an important part of myself.

And that's on why it took me forever to realize I'm bi.

so my boyfriend is writing a book and i have convinced him to write in one of the characters as explicitly aro and bi (she was kind of headed in that direction, but to make it official)

he's amazing and wants a lot of my input on it, because he and i are both bi, so it's really easy for him to write from that perspective, but wants to make sure he captures the aro part as well.

anyone have specific thoughts on how your aroness affects your bi-ness and vice versa?

5 hours ago, Apathetic Echidna said:

There are some great discussions talking about being grey and what that means for different people, because grey isn't one thing it is rather a constellation of different experiences.

I just loved this quote, and really, it is a nice, succinct way of putting it. 

So I've felt what I'm fairly sure is romantic attraction for the first time (which freaked me the hell out, caused a mild identity crisis, and made me realize I'm demiromantic).

For me, it started as friendship and was pretty hard to recognize - I wanted to spend a lot of time with him, hang out, play video games, etc., pretty standard friends stuff. 

What kind of "clued me in" to feeling something else is a bit of a story, but he started giving me a hug at the end of every night and it went from a quick friendship thing to me wanting one all the time and wanting to stay there? And there was kind of a feeling of warmth that accompanied it. 

Then he kissed one of our mutual friends (casually) and I felt pretty devastated, and realized I had no reason to feel that way, and then kinda went....oh. Oh. OH.

He and I went to formal together as friends. The butterflies people talk about were there in a mild form of anxiety for me as I was getting ready - my best friend was laughing at me - in the form of being a little obsessive about my appearance. And then we were just on the couch after the formal and I realized our mutual flirting was a little more than just friendly, and so after a lot of hinting between us, I kissed him. 

For me it's not anything super dramatic, but I smile when I get to talk to him, it hurts right now to not be with him (several states away, unfortunately, due to circumstances). A feeling of warmth and safety, combined with some mutual affection. Like, I feel at home when I'm with him? If that makes any sense to y'all.

So yeah. There's what it felt like in my experience, after years of being slightly fascinated and not understanding. Hope that helps y'all, remember to be kind to grayromantics in this thread. ?

If anyone has any questions about how it works from the AUREA end, I'm happy to help - contact details are on my page. ?

I use romance-favorable - I'm in a romantic relationship (?) and generally I don't mind romance in media.

However, forced romance or amatonormative concepts (Valentine's Day in particular) still make me fairly upset.

From a demiro perspective, I many how many aros that feel some romantic attraction would say romance favorable vs. aros that feel no romantic attraction would say romance favorable. 

Definitely in agreement here. The conflation is bad but that's not necessarily the terminology's fault (although the way it was coined is...interesting). 

Although it is perhaps an example for the "this could have been thought through better but now we're here so we have to find a way to deal with it because it's not going away" bucket - it definitely could use improvement, and individuals are welcome to use/disuse terminology as they please, but I think correction of misinformation is the best way to deal with it, not to discard the grouping as useful.

Given that start, I wonder when and how agender began to be grouped into the asexual and aromantic spectra(ums? I have no idea how English works and this is my native language.)

On 3/26/2020 at 9:00 PM, Guest Sennkestra said:

This comes in the form of people/groups procaliming "aspec" projects or spaces without actually putting in the work to actively include all groups (though tbh, while everyone gets shafted by this, agender folks probably get shafted by this lip-service "aspec" approach even more)

Just a question for y'all, and this is slightly off topic so pardon me: do you consider agender people to be on the a-spec? I've heard conflicting answers and am curious what y'all's thoughts are.

I love Marvel and Percy Jackson as well (although I'm not caught up on the new books :?). Welcome to the forums!

Welcome to Arocalypse! ?

we are staying!

Just wanted to give you some reassurance here - I'm turning 19 soon, and felt the same way you did in about my sophomore year of high school. You don't have to be lonely and just because you haven't found someone who you're close to yet doesn't mean you never will.

From a Christian (Methodist  ) to a Christian, God will put people in your path, and there might be someone with your same experience, or there will be someone that understands. You will find friendship and comfort. Right now, everyone's figuring out who they are, and that means a loooot of focus on relationships for some people, but you don't have to be lonely. Just keep reaching out and you will find friendship.

(Ps: Always here for you. ❤️ Let me know if we can do anything.)

Yeah at age 19 (in three days) I definitely feel much younger than my friends who are graduating and have graduated college at 23. 

1 hour ago, kernsing said:

EDIT: Looking at the Wikipedia talk pages, it may be more effective if we first expand the aromanticism section under the romantic orientation page and then argue that it should be its own page once it's bigger.

That actually is a really good idea. If different people add small contributions and the section grows really large, someone would be able to propose moving it, which would be less sudden than creating another page that might get merged back into asexuality.

One thing AUREA might be useful for, if not citing as a source, would be sourcing flags - including the aroallo and the aroace flag. Since Wikipedia doesn't accept Tumblr as a source and most news articles will use the main aromantic flag. It might be good to include those flags because they are more prominent recently.