nonmerci

That's why the spin-off is so much better. There is still romance (too much maybe), but thid is more about family and power.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love Mai. Funny, I don't think I could stand her as a child, I was all for Thea (for some obscure reason that I can't really understand now), and Macuba (yeah, I know, he's a guy; at first I thought he was a girl, and then, I decided that he is one, because I was probably desperate to find some female character lol) (and anyway, watching it as a grown-up, all my favorite characters changed... Thea? Ugh, give me some Mai and Kaiba please!). In fact, that was because I relate to her that I couldn't stand that scene. Like, you have this strong woman, give her some interesting motivations please! (yep, I am not a woman who loves shopping) Oh, also, now that I think about it : Yumi from Code Lyoko too. She doesn't go crazy about love at all (even if this is imply like she and Ulrich are not indiffferent to each other, and that there is kinda of a love triangle with her, Ulrich and William, the romance is treated in a subtile way, it is never clear if they are dated or not and it never has the spotlight... as far as I know, you could tell me she is aro allo, I'd believe you) And if you don't know Code Lyoko, I recommanded it. That's French, but there is an English translation (as it is an anime, I don't think it the translation will bother you)

I say : Jean from Sex Education. Ok, I am probably dreaming because Jean knows about aromanticism but doesn't seem to apply for herself (the word "aromanticism in the show is not say, but there is a episode where Jean explain to an ace girl what asexuality is, and when the ace girl says she wants to fall in love, Jean answers "some asexuals fall in love, other don't", whcich proves she knows about aromanticism a bit; and being a sex therapist, maybe she looks for information about that). But still, the way she is with her "boyfriend" is season 2 is really aro to me : she enjoys sex but not that much the romantic part. Like, there is this scene when she wakes up and realizes how all the affairs of her, and then when he continue to invade her space, the way she shouts "You are everywhere!"... Yep, pretty aro allo to me. Anyway, if not her, I really hope this show will have an aro character someday, or at least acknowledge aromanticism in itself (not as a note in the asexual episode). And if an aro allo, that would be a bonus : I just want to see Othis, the guy who can't picture himself having sex with someone his not in love with, trying to give advice to someone who basically wants the opposite... That would probably made his character grow. After all, they had an allo ace character last season; why not an aro one in season 3?

For some reason, it made me thought about Yugi-oh... well, not linked to marriage though, but here we go : on the island, you have not a lot of women, and the only important female duellist is Mai, that I really started to love... But then, come the subject of what she wants to win. So, for the guy, you have Yugi who wants to save his grandpa, Joey who wants to save his sister, Kaiba who enters for his little brother, some side characters who does that for honor (other for money, too)... But Mai, what does she wants? The money so she can buy clothes. Like, yeah, that's the only aspiration of a girl : buying clothes! That's sad. And I agree for Padme (don't know the other) : I kinda liked her in the first movie, but in episodes II and III, her whole life is about Anakin... Like, they forgot she is supposed to have a politic role in the story? And my father loves old western, and for me, it full of toxic masculinity, and you are happy when you find a women in there... Really, both genres are bothering me here. I think they try to change that (like, when I compare to the old movies and now, there was improvement... I don't think a show like Orphan Black could have existed back in the days (by the way), but yeah, there are still place for improvements. Movies like 50 Shades of Grey still exist and have success after all... You're not mysognist, it's just that a lot of female characters ar not likeable : in old movies, they are there to value the guys; now there is improvement, but at the same time, the "strong independant woman" will always ended up falling for the guy, no matter how strongly she was supposed not to at the begining... And also, I kinda don't like that, like, if we don't want to date it is necessary because we are some strong feminist who wants to prove she doesn't need a man? Like, it can be just because we enjoy being alone, it is necessarily because we want to prove a point to men? Not just because, you know, we are a person who don't think about men all the time? Also, though female characters are claiming their independance, there are still mostly love interests for guys... Ad to be honest, I was trying to find shows where this is not the case, but I don't find a lot... Though I can say : -Orphan Black, a show about female clones, where the guys are the love interest or the help for the women, not the contrary; romance are really not the center of their existence -Frozen, because Elsa, obviously... Probably Brave too though I can't stand Merida personnaly -Maybe Caitlin from the Flash (not in the first seasons; but it was cool to see in season 4 and 5, she has no love interest at all and nobody cares... don't know for season 6, haven't seen yet) -Regina from Once Upon a Time : yep; she dates during the show, but at the same time, the conclusion for her is that she doesn't need a lover to be happy , she has her friends ans her son for that. (Sorry, I digress from the original topic)

Do you see this topic? As @Jot-Aro Kujo I am a cisgender woman. However I am not feminine. For instance I don't wear make-up (though other girls try to convince me...). I just don't feel the need to do that. I really don't want to add to the stereotype that girls we ar this or that to seduce guys; but I feel like, and this is true for both boys and girls, but gender-coded things are linked to seduction somehow. A girl is considered as feminine when she is "sexy" (make-up, high-heels, skirts, etc). Same for boys by the way, except that the things considered sexy are not the same (muscular, deep voice...). (And it's continue in couples, like the gender-roles are based on who is supposed to do what in the relationship... and not only for straight couples : look at all those homophobe jokes, "who's the girl/boy in the relationship?" Basically saying that you need a boy and a girl in a couple) So really, I feel like agender people are more present in the aromantic community (at least I see a lot here, but, as far as I know, I never met one in real life), and I am really wondering if it is not linked to that somehow. Though of course that is not conscious. It's just : if gender-roles pr coded things are linked to couple things, isn't it logical to not relate to it?

What I meant was not "why do you think he is allo?" bu "what do you think that him being allo means he will refuse to be in a QPR?" My point being : you can't know if you don't ask. ? Now I get why you could not want to ask him to be (fear of rejection, fear of scaring him and loin your friendship, fear of creating tension with his girlfriend...).

I would say 3 things : 1) because saying "I'm not interested" and "I'm aro" is not the same thing (you can be allo but not be interested, and aro but interested, though usually we use the label aro to explain why we are not interested); people will think that being "not interested" will change or that it is a weird thing; and also, people will probably ask why I am not interested, or worst make hypothesis on their own (like I am too childish, or I had trauma, whatever) 2) because it came out that way in the conversation... I came put when we a were talking about attraction or crushes; like when this friend told me something about his crushes (can't remember what), and asked me if the same thing happens to me... "Well no, I am aromantic" 3) because most people don't know aromanticism is a thing and it is a way to tell them. I mean, I don't came out to spend awareness, but if the subject is bring, then I'll explain that I am not in couple not because I am not interested, but because I, like other people, don't feel romantic attraction, that this is not the only way to find happiness (aka amatonormativity). Though I will more come out to people I feel at easy with : I won't come out to people if I don't feel safe I think... which basically explain why contrary to you, I am out to my friends and not my family (well, I finally told my mum recently but I had to explain to her why this is valid ; and she is the tolerant one in the family). Also, think about it : Why do you feel the need to come out to your mum instead of saying "not interested"? Probably, the same feeling that pushes you to do this pushes other to come out to other people.

Same answer : just tell him you are not interested, or you don't feel the same way. That's enough. If he ask why you are not interested, just says you are not and there don't have to be a reason for that : you have or don't have this kind of feelings, there is no reason for that.

I'm probably confused because I don't get squishes myself, but... is it something you talked about with him, or did you assume it was that way because he is allo? Don't know what you mean by full QPR, and yeah if you want a monogamous type of relationship, the fact that he has a girlfriend will not help. But maybe he can be open to something other than friendship anyway? You can't know if you don't ask. Sure a "no" will be hurtfull, maybe change things, but isn't it better than not take a chance?

Little resurrection of this thread! I was wondering if any people here were doing camp nanowrimo right now?

Your points are all good! Do you plan something about the split attraction model too? (I think it can be useful to both ace and aro communities, but even for LGBT+ in general because I think we are not the only people to use it). I saw some people complaining about how even therapists may have difficulties to get that being in couple will not necessarily increase our happiness. So in the same idea of being less amatonormative, I would say : acknowledging that ways to happiness differ for everyone. Thanks for your work!

Can't say better than @pressAtoQUEER. Personally, I figoure out I was aro after I learned the term and then do some introspection. I realized that I don't feel romantic attraction, I think I only had one crush in my entire life. At first, I identify as greyro because of that one crush, and now as aro because, as I said, it was only one crush who was actually different from an allo crush think, so I just decided it didn't count. And I go as aro now.

Just a suggestion because I don't really know, but I guess it is 1) Because of the a- : not knowing how aspec was coined, some people probably thought it was meant to include identity that begins with a (I mean, the a- that we inherit from greek in etymology) 2) Aspec can be used to describe people who has something define as the lack of something or, as @Momo said in the other topic, by a "no thanks"; and agender is refusing gender binary Also it maybe just me, but I come to think recently that it's like LGBT+ : at first it was LGB, and then it began inclusive of trans people (if I am not wrong). Maybe, aspec is taking the same way and tends to include gender questions, and not only orientation?

Sorry, I wasn't very active here for a few days. I am a bit buzzy right now (you would think I'd have plenty of time, now that I can't leave home because of covid-19... but in fact, we are thinking of all the things we'd like to do but we can't usually, and we have to much things to do now lol). I fing that in huffpost What it means to be aromantic according to aromantic people This what it means to be aromantic, demiromantic and queerplatonic An article from the guardian An article from Washington Post about amatonormativity (based on Brake's work) and another about stupid things people say to single people (not specifically about aromanticism, but I thought it could be used if we talk about discrimination or pressure against us). I also take some sources from the romantic orientation page on Wikipedia. 7 facts about aromantic people How popculture denies aromantic asexual existence Romance is not universal, not necessary An article about aromantic (and asexual) erasure There were other things, I just take some. It was just to note some idea of sources that was accepted. I think I should make a google doc with all the references we have already bee quoted. And then study more the aromantic section of the romantic orientation article, to see what we could detail more (if someone else wants to do it, be free to do, of course, this is teamwork). I tried to work on that this week or the next week.

Personally I think the best is wondering if agender want to be included or not. I have no objection (I was thinking that it's like the trans being included in LGBT, but specifically the a- here), but do agenders actually feel they belong in the aspec community? Or was it the aspec that decided that wihout asking? I'm just asking, I don't know at all.

You are not broken. Or then, we both are. Whay they mean by "it is separate from action" is that some asexuals will feel aroused, excited, by touching or imagery. But not all are. Believe me, I tried to feel excited by images that are supposed to be, and it never worked. This is not abnormal. That just the way your body reacts (or, in this case, doesn't react). You are not alone like that. I'm not an expert but think of it that way. If this is hormones, why bi or pansexuals can be interested in both genres, when straight and gay peopl can? This is the same thing, but straight people are not consider broken for not being attracted to other sexes. Also, even if some others can feel that way, they won't feel it in the same circumstances. Tv shows, society, etc, it treated romantic feeling as something unversal, but in fact, the things that create it or not in are unique for each individual. I think different bodies function differently. As I see it : romantic and sexual attraction are caused because some specific stimuli leads your brain to create the hormones in question. But for aromantic or asexuals people, there is no stimuli that creates this sensation. And that's ok. First of all, not feeling romantic love doesn' mean you can't be in a romantic relationship. Some people are. Have you heard of cupioromantic (and I guess there is cupiosexual too?)? It is the orientation for those who are aro or ace, but still want a romantic or sexual relationship. Maybe it would be worth trying to find these people, they may have advices on how to cope with your feelings, and maybe finding a partner if you want to. I think there are a lot of reasons to be here, even without this emotions. It can be a passion you have (for me its writing), a job, friendships, etc. Personnaly, at a point in my life, I feel like that. The reason was not that I don't feel romantic feelings, but that I didn't have any purpose in my life. Or rather, that I forget these purposes or see them as impossible. So my advice may sound shitty, but here it is : think about what you like to do, and the things you like to do ( apart from feeling romantic feelings). Is there in it something you'd like to make a purpose for your life? Things you perceive as meaningful? As I said, for me it is writing, and my purpose in life is to become a writer, even if for some people it sounds unrealistic. For some other, it is helping other people, or activism. Others will find that in raising children, or having a job they like, or racing, or singing, I don't know. It can be anything, as long as it matters for you. The thing is : us human needs to have an objective, to makes sense in our lives. However, as I said, that just my advice. I think you should talk about it with a therapist, he will be more useful than me. But it has to be a therapist who is willing to listen to you, and won't confirm yourself that life is not worth living without romantic love. It is easier to heal with people to help you, if they listen to you. I hope you will feel better soon.

I can relate. I always loved romance in fiction, though a bit upset about some weird ships sometimes and to not see friendship more valued. But since I discover aromanticism, it changes a bit. I am more aware of amatonormativity, and more hoping for non-romantic relationship, less for uneeded romance. Also, I stopped saying things like "love is beautiful" when I see characters kiss (mI always said that as a kid when people kiss lol). Discover aromanticism changes my view on romance, and so the way I see it in movies and shows.

I also understand completely! You basically describe why I consider myself ace (as I don't feel sexual attraction) but not part of the ace community (because I don't care and don't really relate to it). I hope you will enjoy being "just" aromantic! If it makes you feel better, this is good.

Answer sent!

Thanks for your responses ! Yes, I think we should create a Google doc, in particular when it will come to redaction, but also to summarize the ressources. And begining by expanding the aromantic section in romantic orientation seems like an excellent idea!

Acutally, at this age, 4 years can lead to some difference in term of maturity. Of course it also depends on the personality etc, but really, I think you say he is young, yeah!

Again, this is not what I said. I don't blame asexual for that, I just point a fact. I actually don't blame asexual for not talking about allo aros. I don't even imply that the researshers were ace in the first place. I perfectly understand why it is the way it is right now, as I say in my previous post. In fact we are saying the same thing...

That actually something I canted to say, but clearly it seems I failed to it. Also, I porably should add that I was actually trying to find articles about aromantic allosexual too. And I find none. Of course, I get it. Asexuality is already something very new in researches, and they began before aros... As you pointed out, there are already not a lot of asexual articles (and I really don't mean that aces are priviledged for that, it's hard to find things... my, just the fact that I find easily asexual articles by searching things about aromanticism, while you didn't by searching things about asexuality, proves that there are still a lot to do here). I was probably dreaming for finding specific aro articles, or articles about not asexual aros. But on the moment I was actually discouraged to see that none exist. That's it.

This meme is problematic yeah, but at the time I think it is still aro. I mean, the only way to not tag it as aro would to tag it as aroace specifically, and even like that it is still problematic. Because there are attraction that are not romantic nor sexual : squishes, alterous, aesthetical... And sometimes these attractions are very important for aro. I mean there is straight/lesbian/pan/etc aroace, who are people though being both ace and aro still label themselves with "lesbian", "bi", etc because of the other attraction they felt. As @Momo said, the most problematic here is the meme in the first place, because it is weird to cancel something and I get why some people would feel uncomfortable by that. Yep. The difficulty here is that though we share things in common (aka, lacking romantic attraction), any experience is unique. Like, it seems that a lot of aros are romance-repulsed, and of course I can relate to it because I am not (at least, when it is not for me). Or there is this list of you might be aro if where I relate only to a few things in a very huge list, and I am still aromantic. In fact this is a difficult debate. To be honest, I think the best to tag things as aromantic if it can apply to aros (even if not all of them), and the thing that is upsetting is tagging something as aro if there is nothing aro in it. We could also create a specific aroace tag (or maybe it already exist? I'm not into tagging at all), but I think it would lead to other problems because then other differences could emerge in the community, and it would have no end. But maybe I am just thinking that because I am not an allo aro submerged by aroace memes?

Feel free to participate if you want to! To be honest, even if I initiate the idea, I am like you. I am now trying to familiar with links and sources but this not natural for me at all. It just occurs to me at some point that probably most of aros are like me : upset or sad because we have no wikipedia page, but feeling not legetimate to wrtie it. I was hoping that if someone initiate the project, interesting aros will manifest themselves and we can help each other. And about the fact that you never participate to wikipedia... well, I get the idea after reading a book about Wikipedia, and learning more about it (that was for my studies, understanding Wikipedia better can help me). And one of the idea that guides wiki is : everybody can write in it. That's the point. If you feel like you can contribute to increase the encyclopedia, just do it. I think you don't even need an account (well, I will still check that point). Is collaborative, you are invited to write as long as you write true things (and that's chy sources are so important, because you have to prove what you say is true as exhausting as it is). This is when I realized that yeah, I can write a wiki article about aromanticism even I never write anything on wikipedia before. Because it needs to be done. And as nobody has written it yet, why not me? And why not ask for help from other aros, as I can picture myself to do it alone and say "hi, I wrote it and if you are angry I don't care"? I just realized I would be glad to collaborate with other aros on it. (sorry it was a bit long)