Blue Phoenix Ace

Hi there! I do believe my shared hosting was much lower cost than the cloud hosted service. I had used Lunarpages which got bought by HostPapa. Seems like in total, I spent about $250 in maintenance per year, which is a much lighter burden than currently, which appears to be roughly $1000.

In all honesty, whoever takes up the admin role should assume they will get zero donations. Be happy if you do get some, but don't count on it. For those of you who are crypto savvy, you might consider that as a donation option. It's much less hassle than credit cards.

And, I want to thank @Momo for their hard work since taking the site over from me. I think it's been... two years now?

Yeah, I can't reproduce it. It comes and goes...

For some reason I was unable to post a new thread in the admod forum. I got an error that the title and post were blank even though they werent. Let's see if I can post here.

There will soon be a new sheriff in town. If the sheriff wants to hire some deputies, that's up to them.

For those who have subscribed to this thread, this is a bump to let you know to go ahead and vote here:

1 hour ago, Momo said:

 

On the contrary, I think most, but not all, people here have been welcoming of AVEN as a backup plan, just not as it has been presented: as the best possible option.

 

 

I'm not sure you're reading this thread Momo.  So, here's the deal. There is no longer any deal with AVEN. It is not a safety net or backup plan for us now, and I don't see us bridging the gap of opinion in the next week.

I'm going to lock this thread for now, let y'all cool off a bit. Tomorrow, I'll be posting a new thread with some exciting news about the election for administrator.

19 minutes ago, AUREA said:

We have also previously suggested another option. @Momo has agreed to handling the technical end of things, while finances would be covered by several people.  @Lokiana and @Magni have offered to be moderators indefinitely, although ideally we'd like to take on dedicated mods who could devote their time more fully to the forums, as both Lokiana and Magni are committed to other projects. The downside of this plan is that this team would have less experience running a forum specifically. The upside is that we're in touch with aro communities and our members have been active on the forums. It would also stay unaffiliated with AVEN, it's culture, and asexual communities in general by keeping the forums separate. There were originally hesitancies over whether we should take over as AUREA, as we don't wish to monopolize the aro communities, or let our offer be just be a few members lending a hand.  In light of the developments however, it is possible for the AUREA team to take over maintaining the forums. We'd like to know what other offers are on the table eventually, too, as maybe there is one that would be more beneficial to the community.

@Momo is one of the two candidates I'm considering. @Phoenix the II is the other. I'll have more details tomorrow.

OK, this is not the response I expected, but I respect what you all are saying. AVEN will become a backup plan if nobody else can get it working. I've already got a couple of candidates from inside the community and I'm just waiting until the end of day to see if any more volunteer. I plan on holding a general election between the candidates so you all can vote for your favorite.

1 hour ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

But I would prefer not to have AVEN involved if there is literally any other possible solution, for a number of reasons.

If any of those reasons are a deal breaker, it would be better if I knew sooner rather than later. So, please just PM me.

1 hour ago, VoidArcana said:

I'm gonna say it outright, I'm not comfortable with AVEN running this site. I've been fighting for ages to try and stop people assuming my aromanticism means I'm asexual, and I don't think associating a major aromantic space with a well known asexual organisation is gonna help that.

What if the link between the two is not obvious? If these forums still appeared under its own URL "www.arocalypse.com", then where would the confusion be?

1 hour ago, aepaex said:

Agreed with the above. I think a merge with AVEN should only happen if there are no alternatives. I think it's nice that Arocalypse would keep it's own "space"/rules/etc. but I'd really rather it not be a sister site to AVEN, since aromanticism is still treated like a sub-category of asexuality by a lot of people.

Arocalypse would continue to be maintained as a separate set of forums, with its own unique membership. That is, registering for AVEN doesn't get you an Arocalypse account, or vice versa. So, rather than being seen as a sub-category, it would remain its own entity in most respects.

57 minutes ago, Coyote said:

If AVEN can provide some logistical support to Arocalypse, that would be a great thing.  But what I would be concerned about is if any of this "stable leadership" is provided by people who are directly elected by the AVEN community.  Just say no.

What if the administrator on the new infrastructure was one of our own, just that the backend of the web hosting was handled by AVEN? And the moderators are elected by the Arocalypse community.

58 minutes ago, Coyote said:

The second thing I would be concerned about, is that even if the AVEN leadership is competent, I don't trust the larger AVEN community to react appropriately.  You don't want to be exposed to the vagaries of AVEN internal community politics.  You might think ace tumblr has a lot of bullshit going on but imagine dealing with another strain of bullshit you never knew existed.  If it were me, I would only accept an Arocalypse/AVEN affiliation on the condition that AVEN does not advertise the affiliation to its community.

I don't understand. What kind of new bullshit would Arocalypse be exposed to that is is not already?

15 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

12 hours ago, Blue Phoenix Ace said:

...The key here is that the community here on Arocalypse would remain in control of its own rules and culture, as long the core values between the two forums remain similar...

 

What does this mean, exactly? Because if "being inclusive of aros even if they do not primarily identify as ace" is considered a core value of Arocalypse, well, in many people's experience it sure ain't a core value of AVEN. 

I understand that's vague. We didn't discuss every last detail of that statement, but Arocalypse would still maintain its own Terms of Service. As for core values, it's for example being respectful of others, don't harass people, etc. That's already baked into our Terms of Service. What AVEN is saying is we can't edit the Terms of Service to say "you can threaten to beat people up and that's OK" (as an extreme example). We're already agreeing with the core values of AVEN, just with a slightly different flavor in that our focus is romantic orientation while theirs is sexual orientation.

My key takeways here are:

• The link between AVEN and Arocalypse should not be obvious, Arocalypse should still use a unique domain name
• Any new leadership for Arocalypse needs to be chosen by the community of Arocalypse

I've got some good news. I spoke with a member of the Project Team from AVEN and shared some technical stats about this site with them. One scenario is that AVEN would take over the site as an affiliate forum. For the most part, Arocalypse would maintain it's autonomy. We'd have separate Terms of Service, and bans would not transfer between sites automatically. That being said, the AdMod teams of the forums might share information with one another in case bans are very serious. (A stalker who gets banned on one forum would automatically get a ban on the other). The key here is that the community here on Arocalypse would remain in control of its own rules and culture, as long the core values between the two forums remain similar.

I understand some of you would feel uncomfortable with this type of merge, and you probably wouldn't speak out in that way publicly. If you have concerns about this approach that you don't want to air publicly, please send me a private message.

The benefit of a handoff to AVEN is:

• Stable funding
• Stable leadership
• Stable platform (even more stable than what I've provided)

I have agreed that if this happens, I'll stay on as administrator for a few months to help with the transition.

Any thoughts on this, good or bad, please let me know. Thanks!

I'm not sure about CPU load or network bandwidth. My web host takes care of all of that for me. I think running it from a home machine is probably a bad idea overall, as it's much more likely to have downtime. (You lose power and the site goes down, but that can't happen with a web host)

As for server costs, I'd be happy to pitch in for the first year for the new owner once they've demonstrated they can run the site. (I'm not handing 300 bucks to someone who claims they'll run the site and then run off with the cashola) So, I know that's kind of a catch 22 there. You need money to get it going but you need it going before I fund you.

What?

Arocalypse will soon be approaching it's 4th birthday on April 3rd, 2016. Unfortunately, it's not quite going to make it, unless you decide to take over. I am stepping down as system administrator as some annual fees are due in soon, and I'm ready to hand it over to the next enthusiastic person.

When?

The last day Arocalypse will be online in its current form is March 29th, 2020.

Why?

I started Arocalypse as a place for aromantics and greyromantics to have focused discussion about their romantic orientation. I wanted such a place to fill that gap. There had been a previous site with the same name started by @Mezzo Forte. I decided to use the same name so all the formerly broken links to this site would work again.

Personally, I only visit the site to take care of problems, never to take place in the discussions. I've been happy to "keep the lights on" thus far, but the technical issues have been a bit of a drag lately, and frankly I'm tried of the background worry. I do some small amount of Google ads to help draw traffic here, but that's been on auto-pilot and I don't give it the attention it needs.

I think someone with more interest in the community and more energy could do more with this site. Better advertising would be a good start. A store to buy aro-related merchandise would be great too. I just lack the interest in doing much more than keeping the status quo.

What can I do?

If you're interested in keeping the site running as the system administrator, you'll need to know (or be willing to learn) about the technologies that drive it:

1. Domain registration
2. Web site hosting
3. Invision power suite (the forum software)

I'd estimate I pay around $250-$300 annually to keep it all running. An annual fund raiser or a Patreon account should have no trouble paying the fees, and potentially upping the advertising investment to drive more incoming traffic.

If you think you can do this, please send me a private message here, or on AVEN (with the same name). I'm going to screen applicants, and make the best choice for a successor. I can then pass you the database, the password, and create an admin account for you to get you up and running on the new site.

Thanks!

Thanks again for making the community such a wonderful place. All I did was build the house, but you all made it a home.

More questions?

Please respond to this thread, I'm listening.

6 hours ago, Kallie said:

I saw that some forums show members' birthdays on their main page with a small message congratulating them. It's a small, but sweet thing, maybe we could add that?

I'll look into it. I'm not sure if that's a feature of Invision or not.

31 minutes ago, Ch0c0 said:

When acccessing the site it says that the connexion is not secure/not suporting encryption. I'm not a IT expert so I don't know what difference it makes. I'm raising this as we could be discussing heavy stuff here. Could it be improved?

Encryption is useful when dealing with sensitive information. For example: credit cards numbers or identifying information such as social security number. Email addresses are not identifiable, so the concern is low.

You can fake all of the information when you create an account, except for email address. But you can obtain a fake email address from Yahoo for free. None of your account information is identifiable unless you opt in and include it by choice. (For example, your name could be an alias or just made up)

As for forum posts, it is all publicly readable, so there's nothing to hide there. If you are concerned that a " man in the middle" or XSS attack might occur and intercept private messages, then you can conduct private messaging over email or some other secure method.

If we wanted to open a shop here and sell aro themed pride clothes, then I would 100% add a certificate, but otherwise, I don't see a compelling reason for it.

OK, I added section 2m to the ToS to take a clear stance on this type of offense. I will not retroactively assign warnings for past posts that broke this rule, but future instances will be warned. I've also hidden the original post, and am going to lock this thread down. If you have more questions, feel free to PM me. Also, be sure to visit the moderator elections subforum.

36 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

The one who lit it with the match.

 

What about you? You're the staff member here. If I use myself as the sacrificial goat and to go and play out the scenario I raised -- throwing gasoline, as you put it -- then should I expect you to tell me that whatever happens next doesn't count because we had this conversation first?

 

I'd like to discuss the policies you're setting here, but first I need to understand exactly what they are and how the rulings work.

 

If you go to a public space and ask someone for their opinion, and they give it to you, then what harm has been done? If the asker is that sensitive, then they shouldn't be asking folks who they think will give them a callous answer. If the response is insulting in ways that don't relate to the question or discussion, such as "you're dumb", then that's a warning per usual. So, yes, if you throw gasoline and end up getting burned, it's partially on you at that point.

37 minutes ago, Coyote said:

On my end, the link preview displays as "Sorry, we can't show this content because you do not have permission to see it."

OK, I figured it out, but it's not intuitive...

36 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

So, just to get this straight--

 

Hypothetically, if a specific, individual, not-aromantic-but-not-alloromantic person threw themselves before TripleA and said "Does what you're saying generally apply to me personally?" or "What do you think of my romantic orientation?" and if he answered that by saying what we can pretty well figure he'd say,

 

then

 

you would say there's been a violation of the rules?

If that individual did so in an open forum, then I'd ponder why they'd do such a thing. If the purpose is to have an open debate about the validity of grey-romanticism, then I don't see a problem with it. If it's just there to bait someone into violating rules, then that's where things get dicey. Do you blame the one who threw the gasoline on the house, or the one who lit it with the match?

So, let's change the example a little bit. User XXX creates a thread titled "Coyote is not Quoi-romantic" and personally attacks you. XXX picks apart your posts and says you're alloromantic. That's clearly a warning. That wouldn't a thread where open discussion is encouraged, because they are singling you out.

On the other hand, user XXX might create a thread "Grey-romanticism isn't real", present five or six premises on why they believe such a thing and go into a respectful debate about such points with other members. These kinds of threads should, at the end of the day, give people more logical reasons for the beliefs, which seems to be a good thing.

12 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Also, I do have a question- How many mods are there? Is it just you?

There's two other mods, but they haven't been around in a while. Considering I get about one report a month, and half of those are just spammers that are simple bans, it hasn't been important. I'll call an election for new mods though, since it would be nice to have more again.

I'm curious, can folks post in this thread? I swear the sub-forum was locked or hidden to everyone while it laid dormant.

Regarding "personal insults", these would need to be something like "you're dumb" or "you're ugly". This is the petty kind of crap you see on the school playground. I don't think that's what we are getting here.

"Judgements of other users", again feels like it would need to single a person out. There's a difference between these two statements:

• I think grey-romantic people don't exist, they are just alloromantic
• You are not grey-romantic, you're feelings are invalid, you're alloromantic

I agree that it is a subtle difference, but an important one. One is a statement attacking you personally, while another is stating an opinion. While that opinion is very unpopular around here, it's not a bigoted one like "all kids with blue eyes are dumb". It's also an opinion that is open for a reasonable debate, which can help people when they need to argue it elsewhere. For example, have you ever read a thread on AVEN where someone might claim that asexuality is fake. You learn something from the ensuing debate, and then you have some new knowledge with which to base your conversations with people in real life. I certainly have.

If you'd like me to add a clause to the terms of service flagging "all posts or external links that attempt to claim that any particular label is not real" as a warning, then I can do so. I have to make it vague to cover every possible label anyone has ever imagined.

Trying to reason with somebody who doesn't want to hear your arguments can be frustrating, but also leads to better understanding from all the other people reading the thread. While you may fail to convince the original poster to change their opinion, the hundred of other people who may come and read the thread might learn something new. If the thread gets locked with no discussion, then none of that benefit can take place.

So, there's a fine line between censoring everything that might trigger or upset anyone, and being too lax and allowing this space to become unsafe or repulsive.

Facts:

1. @TripleA posted a link to an external Tumblr page with a survey. The tumblr post included text that excluded grey-romantics from taking the survey, which may have been found insulting to some.
2. There were several lengthy and well-worded responses to the survey here.
3. There was no mention of this text on Arocalypse itself, until @sennkestra copied and pasted it here.
4. The post was reported so I locked the thread and removed @sennkestra's reposting of the offensive material.
5. @sennkestra sent me a message to remove the link to Tumblr, and I did, but didn't respond back directly to his DM.

First of all, I can't moderate content on Tumblr. I have also given @TripleA a chance to edit the Tumblr post and repost the link if it's acceptable here.

Whoops, hit "send" before I was done...

I'm doing my best to make this an inclusive community, but I'm also not here to shield people from everything you might see on the internet that might offend you. I can either lock any thread where someone presents an opinion you don't like, or you can have a civil discussion with them about why they think the way they do. On the other hand, I will moderate threads that involve ad hominem attacks or threats.

Here's an example of a civil discussion:

I think there's no such thing as being grey-romantic, you're either aromantic or you've experienced romantic attraction and you're alloromantic

Oh, you want to lump all grey-romantics in with allo-romantics? Well, why is that? What's led you to this opinion?

Well, really I'm just looking for a place where I can speak with people who have never had romantic attraction. I don't identify well with even people who claim to be grey-romantic

Perhaps, you can find that over in this corner of the internet, or start your own forums or Discord server...

First of all, I'd like to point out that while I administer this site, I have no oversight over the Discord server. (I don't even have the address to go chat on it, so there's that)

This post has been reported, but it breaks none of the rules. The closest one it might come to breaking is:

Quote

f. Judgements of other users
Making judgments about other users, especially about the validity of their sexual or romantic orientation, is strongly discouraged. We are here to figure ourselves out, not to put each other in boxes.

But, since Triple A didn't call anyone out specifically, he didn't break this rule. I'd say all he did here was post an opinion that might be unpopular to many of the members of this site.

In my personal opinion, I find the term "aro-spec" a bit... misleading. Imagine a scale between someone who experiences zero romantic attraction, and someone hyper-romantic, just can't get enough. Aromanticism is one end of that scale. It's a single point along a continuous line. Grey-romantic, on the other hand, defines a broad range of experiences. It's hard to say where you would draw the line between grey-romantic and allo-romantic. It's not like we can assign a numerical score to our romantic attraction intensity and say anything below 73 is grey, and 0 is aro. 74 and up is allo. So, we have to use a more subjective judgement here. In my opinion, if someone feels that their peers are much different than them, and/or are struggling because of the difference in how they experience romantic attraction, then they are grey-romantic. I'd prefer to see the term "Grey-ro spec", but I won't lose any sleep over it.

From there, you can go into more specific buckets, like lithromantic, demiromantic, etc. Imagine this as just a smaller and smaller subset of individuals (the next smaller set something like homo-lithromantic, etc.)

Again, in my personal opinion, I think defining aromantic as "never or sometimes feels romantic attraction" is also misleading. The Latin/Greek (not sure) root a- means without or not. If we start to include "sometimes" folks into that term, then what term do we use for folks who are "without"? While Jot-Aro's "one of the most stereotypical no-romance-ever aromantics" makes it more clear, it's also a bit of a mouthful. Once upon a time, I called myself aromantic because I was denying that my handful of crushes made me grey-romantic. Notice that my label is now "Grey-romantic", even though I experience almost no romantic attraction. One label isn't somehow superior to another, and if we use clear definitions, then we can discard "no-romance-ever" from the aromantic label, and just start saying "aromantic". This is a site for aromantic and grey-romantic people, so nobody has to jump ship if they switch labels.

As for the flag, I can see Triple A's point, but immediately counter with "well the asexual flag does it too". In fact, the ace flag includes everyone who isn't actively opposed to asexuality since purple is for "allies" or "community". So in that analogy, the aromantic flag works similarly. If folks want to wave a demi-romantic flag to show that they are in that smaller bucket, that's fine, but they could also be waving the more general aromantic flag too. I'm honestly surprised that any consensus has been made over the aromantic flag. I thought that was still up in the air, so to speak.

Feel free to contact me for all your self destruct needs. Your posts will appear to be written by a guest, as seen in the previous post.

I think you get an upgrade at 25 posts. Enjoy!

Hi! Yeah I think it was 2016.

The database crashed yesterday and I fixed it this morning. I am at work now but will check on this tomorrow.

I believe that if you edit the first post of the thread, then you will have an option to delete the thread entirely. The option only appears when you edit the very first message of the thread and you're also the poster. (Well, I guess you can't edit somebody else's post anyway)

As for deleting your account, I'm the only one who can do that. It will remove all your information and any post you had made previously will still be there but the poster's name is changed to either "guest" or "anonymous". Just message me and I can take care of it. I've only done it three times so far, so it's pretty rare.