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Holmbo

Could I make myself more sexual?

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Holmbo   

I'm aromantic and graysexual. I'm very happy with my romantic orientation, I have no desire to be in a romantic relationship and really feel like not being so bound to just one person will help me live a happier life. But with my sexual orientation it's different. I'm very positive to sex and I have some urges but I can never find any outlet for them. I like kissing and caressing and I get aroused by it but up to a certain point but then it goes no further no matter what I or the guy does. I've tried different types of porn or tools for myself and found some enjoyment but it's the same there. If I keep trying I get bored.

 

I would like to have sex, it seems nice. But it's like my body won't get there. I've been thinking about trying sex with a woman if that would be different but I find it very complicated to find a woman who is into sex with women without a relationship, who finds me attractive and I her. Also the lesbian community of any place is kinda small so I'd feel weird being too open in my search, friends of mine and their acquittances might find out and disapprove because I want to "experiment".

 

Perhaps it's just not possible for me to have sex (and when I say have sex I basically mean have an orgasm). Maybe it's just like a cupid aromantic wanting to fall in love.

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Disclaimer: I haven't had sex, so take anything I'm about to say with a big pinch of salt!

 

5 hours ago, Holmbo said:

I like kissing and caressing and I get aroused by it but up to a certain point but then it goes no further no matter what I or the guy does. I've tried different types of porn or tools for myself and found some enjoyment but it's the same there. If I keep trying I get bored.

 

Possibly you're putting too much pressure on yourself to "achieve" a particular outcome? (e.g. orgasm).  For instance, I started practising meditation recently and it's not like you can sit down and go "now I shall have an important insight on non-self"  Rather, you put yourself into a receptive state where those sorts of experiences may (or may not) happen by themselves. You can't really will them to happen or try to make them happen. Maybe sex/orgasm could be a bit like that for you? Just relax and enjoy yourself, I guess.  You said that you've "found some enjoyment"  already, so maybe just focus in on that enjoyment and wait and see what opens up to you from there?

 

5 hours ago, Holmbo said:

I'd feel weird being too open in my search, friends of mine and their acquittances might find out and disapprove because I want to "experiment".

 

If it's something you feel like you need to do then I'd say DO IT. Notice what's at number 1 on this list ;)  If others "disapporove" then that's their issue, not yours. 

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Holmbo   
On 2017-05-13 at 4:45 PM, NullVector said:

Possibly you're putting too much pressure on yourself to "achieve" a particular outcome? (e.g. orgasm).  For instance, I started practising meditation recently and it's not like you can sit down and go "now I shall have an important insight on non-self"  Rather, you put yourself into a receptive state where those sorts of experiences may (or may not) happen by themselves. You can't really will them to happen or try to make them happen. Maybe sex/orgasm could be a bit like that for you? Just relax and enjoy yourself, I guess.  You said that you've "found some enjoyment"  already, so maybe just focus in on that enjoyment and wait and see what opens up to you from there?

 

That is what I've been trying to do so far but it gets frustrating that I feel these urges but can't find an outlet for them. But I suppose you're still right about not trying to force anything. Maybe I should just befriend some attractive women who seems open minded and see where it goes.

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40 minutes ago, Holmbo said:

I feel these urges

 

Like what? :P 

 

We were talking about this model in some other threads recently. You're 'gray ace' so I was wondering how many out of these four you experience - and to what extent:

  • Primary Sexual Attraction: A sexual attraction to people based on instantly available information (such as their appearance or smell) which may or may not lead to arousal or sexual desire.
  • Secondary Sexual Attraction: A sexual attraction that develops over time based on a person's relationship and emotional connection with another person.
  • Primary Sexual Desire: The desire to engage in sexual activity for the purposes of personal pleasure whether physical, emotional, or both.
  • Secondary Sexual Desire: The desire to engage in sexual activity for the purposes other than personal pleasure, such as the happiness of the other person involved or the conception of children

I experience all four, for example. As distinct and distinguishable phenomena; but I also find that they all tend to reinforce/amplify one another.

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Holmbo   

I experience only the primary attraction and desire. The attraction is just visual, or it's context dependent for example if I read about sex or see it on tv. I've never experienced sexual attraction to someone due to their personality or our relationship. This is why dating feels weird to me.
But even with visual sexual attraction it ebbs and flows, it can depend on my own mood, or sometimes I feel turned on but I don't even know why.

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13 hours ago, Holmbo said:

I experience only the primary attraction and desire.

 

That's interesting. I'd somehow got the impression that 'grey ace' folks would typically experience the primary attractions/desires as being weaker than the secondary ones.  

 

13 hours ago, Holmbo said:

I've never experienced sexual attraction to someone due to their personality or our relationship.

 

If I find somebody interesting intellectually then it motivates me more to try and 'notice' things about them that I find sexually attractive. Similarly, if I find them a bit shallow, say, then I'm less inclined to gawk at them after that xD Intelligence is sexy, IME (or, at least, it adds to any pre-existing sex appeal). But dating also feels weird to me. The whole 'romance first' aspect totally baffles me.

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On 5/22/2017 at 8:08 PM, NullVector said:

Secondary Sexual Desire: The desire to engage in sexual activity for the purposes other than personal pleasure, such as the happiness of the other person involved or the conception of children

 

Reading this again, the concept is potentially a confused one, IMO. For me, the whole idea of giving pleasure to another person in a sexual context is a major 'turn on'. So does it still count as "purposes other than personal pleasure" in that case? Actually, I think any firm distinction that's made here between "personal pleasure" and  "the happiness of the other person" is pretty artificial. I reckon humans are 'built' to derive pleasure from giving one another pleasure. Which is a good thing :D (for instance, people are generally decent to one another; and I'd say that's often in spite of an economic/political system that incentivises them to behave like sociopaths! The fact that "nice guys finish last" became a popular cliche is a pretty severe indictment of our social institutional setup...)

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On 13/05/2017 at 10:16 AM, Holmbo said:

I would like to have sex, it seems nice. But it's like my body won't get there.

I relate to this so hard. Seriously, I have tried to enjoy sex, even finding a partner whom I know to be very experienced/skilled, still nothing. It's kind of like romance for me, when it's described in literature/movies/whatever it seems like such a nice thing (and such an instinctual thing) but no matter how much I want to feel it, it's like my body just says 'fuck no' and I'm left dissatisfied.

It's more annoying with sex than romance too, as at least sex has obvious merits (sensory pleasure, etc) whereas romance seems way more trouble than it's worth, and I don't even want to know what heartbreak must be like.

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DeltaV   
9 hours ago, SamwiseLovesLife said:

I relate to this so hard. Seriously, I have tried to enjoy sex, even finding a partner whom I know to be very experienced/skilled, still nothing. It's kind of like romance for me, when it's described in literature/movies/whatever it seems like such a nice thing (and such an instinctual thing) but no matter how much I want to feel it, it's like my body just says 'fuck no' and I'm left dissatisfied.

I wonder where exactly it starts to feel “meh” since you enjoy sensual stuff a lot. Maybe get a yoni-massage? (sorry, it's just a suggestion!! :$)

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Momo   
1 hour ago, DeltaV said:

I wonder where exactly it starts to feel “meh” since you enjoy sensual stuff a lot.

For me, it's basically when things start getting into actual sex acts. Usually, the boundary is pretty close to the boundary between foreplay and sex. I can usually tell the difference because my mind starts wandering and I start planning what I want to do with the rest of the day or start thinking about work. 

 

I enjoy sensual interaction, but even that has its limits. Like I couldn't kiss someone "all night long". I feel like it's a bit of a balancing act. Sensual activities are usually used as a lead in for sex. If you remove the sex then... Basically, I just like them in small random doses. Maybe a kiss for my QPP when we meet at home or a massage or similar once off things. 

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Momo   
On 13/05/2017 at 7:16 PM, Holmbo said:

I like kissing and caressing and I get aroused by it but up to a certain point but then it goes no further no matter what I or the guy does.

Yep, I can definitely relate to this though with the benefit of hindsight I've realised that for me at least it's mostly just a physical reaction. Woman grips my penis so it hardens but I still don't want to have sex with them any more than I did before. If I pursue it anyway, I just get bored and distracted. I've never had a problem with getting to orgasm. It's the exact opposite - I come waaay too quickly and there's no pleasure involved. So I've come to identify as a sex-neutral ace. I don't mind participating but I don't get anything out of it and don't particularly desire to participate.

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On 01/08/2017 at 8:34 PM, DeltaV said:

I wonder where exactly it starts to feel “meh” since you enjoy sensual stuff a lot. Maybe get a yoni-massage? (sorry, it's just a suggestion!! :$)

Haha that's perfectly alright, I like advice :D  Actually a good point too, maybe if I feel like trying again I can try to pinpoint that exact line between i like/fuck no..

 

---> (What's a yoni-massage?)

 

@Momo I totally relate, except for me, partnered sex has never gotten me to orgasm, which I find pretty easy alone.. Damn frustrating (for both parties)

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DeltaV   
11 hours ago, SamwiseLovesLife said:

---> (What's a yoni-massage?)

As you've probably guessed, it's a tantric massage for women.

 

I only know about it because I've stumbled on an article written by a woman who makes her living by giving this and other tantric massages. Obviously, I have no first-hand experiences nor could I even make them (wrong plumbing :)). It usually starts with a normal massage for relaxation and then proceeds to the vulva/vagina supposedly touching all the right spots in the right way. The biggest problem with trying it out, of course, consists in finding someone who can do it skillfully, because, well, not everybody is fond of the idea of paying a stranger to perform it on oneself.

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On 04/08/2017 at 1:28 AM, DeltaV said:

As you've probably guessed, it's a tantric massage for women.

 

I only know about it because I've stumbled on an article written by a woman who makes her living by giving this and other tantric massages. Obviously, I have no first-hand experiences nor could I even make them (wrong plumbing :)). It usually starts with a normal massage for relaxation and then proceeds to the vulva/vagina supposedly touching all the right spots in the right way. The biggest problem with trying it out, of course, consists in finding someone who can do it skillfully, because, well, not everybody is fond of the idea of paying a stranger to perform it on oneself.

Huh! You learn something new every day :)

Unfortunately though I wouldn't have a problem with that per say, I am trans so have body issues with people touching certain areas (not my genitals, amusingly).. plus in any sexual/sensual act I really like to give as much or more than recieve, so I couldn't have a proffessional do that as I'd feel wrong not reciprocating. GOD DAMN SELFLESSNESS (probs not, maybe I'm some kind of wierd pervert) :rofl: **bangs head on desk**

 

So why couldn't someone with male genitals get that too? I'm pretty sure stroking would count as a massage? (Dear lord this post is getting graphic)

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DeltaV   
On 8/7/2017 at 2:40 PM, SamwiseLovesLife said:

So why couldn't someone with male genitals get that too? I'm pretty sure stroking would count as a massage?

Oh, yes after a short research I found out it exists, it's called “Lingam massage”. Yoni and Lingam are the Sanskrit words for, well you know… :D

There isn't this much of hype around it like with yoni massages, probably because male genitals are regarded as less complicated.

On 8/7/2017 at 2:40 PM, SamwiseLovesLife said:

(Dear lord this post is getting graphic)

That can happen in a thread titled “Could I make myself more sexual?” -_-

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Eklinaar   

I'm fairly allosexual so I don't know if my experience is applicable, but I find that being with someone I trust and care for deeply makes me a whole lot more comfortable in a sexual situation.  Sometimes I'm even able to experience things I can't when that trust and care isn't present.  Sex is also a very emotional exchange for me, and I know for a lot of people it isn't, so that might also have something to do with it.

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13 hours ago, DeltaV said:

Yoni and Lingam are the Sanskrit words for, well you know… :D

I knew this forum was educational :rofl:

 

13 hours ago, DeltaV said:

probably because male genitals are regarded as less complicated.

This doesn't surprise me.. I still learn new things about my genitals and I'm 21 :facepalm:

 

2 hours ago, Eklinaar said:

I'm fairly allosexual so I don't know if my experience is applicable, but I find that being with someone I trust and care for deeply makes me a whole lot more comfortable in a sexual situation.  Sometimes I'm even able to experience things I can't when that trust and care isn't present.  Sex is also a very emotional exchange for me, and I know for a lot of people it isn't, so that might also have something to do with it.

It's nice that an Aro person can admit to this. Too much on this forum I see people talking about sex as a simple physical transaction, which I'm sure it is for some people, but emotions don't make it romantic, I for one enjoy very close platonic bonds which could easily benefit a sexual exchange [approval +1]

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Momo   
58 minutes ago, SamwiseLovesLife said:

Too much on this forum I see people talking about sex as a simple physical transaction, which I'm sure it is for some people, but emotions don't make it romantic, I for one enjoy very close platonic bonds which could easily benefit a sexual exchange

For what it's worth, as a sex neutral ace I can only have sex with someone I'm already intimate in other ways with. But for me the act itself is very much a physical transaction and barely that, almost a physical gift from me to my partner. Interestingly, I really always viewed it close to this way even before I identified as ace. I recognise now though that I'm the one in the minority now that I know about aces. 

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Eklinaar   
53 minutes ago, SamwiseLovesLife said:

It's nice that an Aro person can admit to this. Too much on this forum I see people talking about sex as a simple physical transaction, which I'm sure it is for some people, but emotions don't make it romantic, I for one enjoy very close platonic bonds which could easily benefit a sexual exchange [approval +1]

 

Yes!  I don't want to derail this thread since it's not about this, but I'd be happy to discuss this with you in more detail.  This is my greatest struggle in sexual relationships, that it is a very emotional and intimate experience for me, but it is not romantic for me.  Everyone I meet seems to want both emotional intimacy and romance, or neither.  And that's why I haven't had a sexual relationship in years.

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10 hours ago, Eklinaar said:
11 hours ago, SamwiseLovesLife said:

It's nice that an Aro person can admit to this. Too much on this forum I see people talking about sex as a simple physical transaction, which I'm sure it is for some people, but emotions don't make it romantic, I for one enjoy very close platonic bonds which could easily benefit a sexual exchange [approval +1]

 

Yes!  I don't want to derail this thread since it's not about this, but I'd be happy to discuss this with you in more detail.  This is my greatest struggle in sexual relationships, that it is a very emotional and intimate experience for me, but it is not romantic for me.  Everyone I meet seems to want both emotional intimacy and romance, or neither.  And that's why I haven't had a sexual relationship in years.

 

Same. I really can't imagine sex with somebody I didn't already know quite well and trusted and liked in various ways. I'm not really interested in 'one night stands' (not that I have a problem with anyone who is). But, at the same time, I don't  want to do the whole 'life-merging' thing. It seems like a pretty unusual combination of preferences and I think that in large part because of it (there may be other reasons, but I also don't really wanna derail the whole thread by going into them) I've never actually had sexual relationships.

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23 hours ago, Momo said:

For what it's worth, as a sex neutral ace I can only have sex with someone I'm already intimate in other ways with. But for me the act itself is very much a physical transaction and barely that, almost a physical gift from me to my partner. Interestingly, I really always viewed it close to this way even before I identified as ace. I recognise now though that I'm the one in the minority now that I know about aces. 

Ahh I feel similarly. I think this may change in time for myself as I transition my body to my gender, but at the current time I agree; sexual acts are like something I give to someone else to show my appreciation of them, and not something I enjoy myself. (I don't do this very often either, not for a good 2.5 years now)

 

23 hours ago, Eklinaar said:

This is my greatest struggle in sexual relationships, that it is a very emotional and intimate experience for me, but it is not romantic for me.  Everyone I meet seems to want both emotional intimacy and romance, or neither.  And that's why I haven't had a sexual relationship in years.

**derailing the thread anyway** Yes! We need more people like us who can admit these feelings *sigh* I wish others could understand this. I get similarly misconstrued as I am a very physically affectionate person with friends and, frankly, anyone. Those who don't know me well may think this is romantic but they would be wrong, It's just that my affection bubbles over until I feel that the person feels loved (I get ironically told I would make the best partner ever, as all I do is give, but as I don't wish for a romantic relationship I *force* this on my friends. They don't complain though :rofl:)

 

13 hours ago, NullVector said:

 I really can't imagine sex with somebody I didn't already know quite well and trusted and liked in various ways. I'm not really interested in 'one night stands' (not that I have a problem with anyone who is). But, at the same time, I don't  want to do the whole 'life-merging' thing.

Welcome to the club :) Maybe we need our own thread.. Non-romantic sex and intimacy with feelings attached?

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23 hours ago, SamwiseLovesLife said:

Maybe we need our own thread.. Non-romantic sex and intimacy with feelings attached?

Sure, make it so! :D

Not sure how much I'll be able to contribute, but I'll be very interested to read what others post there.

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DeltaV   
On 8/10/2017 at 10:16 PM, NullVector said:

Same. I really can't imagine sex with somebody I didn't already know quite well and trusted and liked in various ways. I'm not really interested in 'one night stands' (not that I have a problem with anyone who is). 

Though I'm one of those people:

On 8/10/2017 at 10:47 AM, SamwiseLovesLife said:

Too much on this forum I see people talking about sex as a simple physical transaction,

I would at least agree that, for example, if somebody already knows all your blemishes and the like, it makes it far more relaxing.

On 8/10/2017 at 10:16 PM, NullVector said:

But, at the same time, I don't  want to do the whole 'life-merging' thing. It seems like a pretty unusual combination of preferences

Okay, there is a lot in between a committed romantic relationship and an ONS. :D I think that it becomes unusual if one really wants to make it long-term, approach it slowly and wants to trust and know somebody really well, but major parts of the usual romantic relationship are missing.

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On 13/08/2017 at 0:16 AM, DeltaV said:

I would at least agree that, for example, if somebody already knows all your blemishes and the like, it makes it far more relaxing.

^ Preach

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On 8/13/2017 at 0:16 AM, DeltaV said:

Okay, there is a lot in between a committed romantic relationship and an ONS. :D

Although I wouldn't want to imagine it like a 'spectrum' on which 'committed romantic relationship' and 'ONS' were extremes at either 'end' (not saying that's what you were doing; but it potentially could be read that way, just from the use of 'in between'). I'd want to imagine it more like a complex multi-dimensional space of relationship possibilities, within which 'committed romantic relationship' and 'ONS' were just two particular points, with various possibilities spanning various different dimensions existing all around them.

 

On 8/13/2017 at 0:16 AM, DeltaV said:

I think that it becomes unusual if one really wants to make it long-term, approach it slowly and wants to trust and know somebody really well, but major parts of the usual romantic relationship are missing.

Yep, I think that's more what I was getting at. I take a while to warm up to people in general and even I don't really know what it is I actually want vis-a-vis 'relationships'; so I'd feel a bit sorry for some poor partner who had to try and figure out all of my nonsense xD 

 

Also, we should all head on over here to carry on discussing :D 

 

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