Discussion of femininity

[SoulWolf]

14 hours ago, Dodecahedron314 said:

Why the heck do people think it's ever going to be anything other than a.) pointless, and b.) extremely awkward, to say something like this to someone?

Playful teasing? I do stuff like that... I think the reason I do it is because I suck at compliments, so instead of saying "hey, you have nice legs", I'd say something stupid like "hey, you have legs! I've never seen those before!" ... maybe I should work on that.

 

14 hours ago, Dodecahedron314 said:

Speaking of which, what is it with the whole obnoxiously gendered prom culture thing? Is that a thing outside the US? Because here, at least, the amount of expectations of conventional femininity that are attached to the whole affair is more than a little horrifying.

It's not that bad here in South Africa, but it is still kind of a thing. We call it something else though. I didn't go to mine (long story). I've also actively avoided a lot of "formal dress" occasions because well, I wouldn't be caught dead in a dress, and wearing a suit would seem wrong in a similar kind of way. So what does that leave me with? Simple... don't go. lol

 

9 hours ago, techno-trashcan said:

When I go to the mall with my friends, sometimes they want to look at clothes, which is fine because I like clothes well enough, but I don't feel comfortable shopping with people because I cannot bring myself to fit the stereotypical feminine narrative. And I just get so sick of being judged for it! "Just wear the swimsuit, you'll look great, don't be self-conscious!" It's not that I'm self-conscious, I mean that's part of it, but I just hate the way it feels and feminine gender roles just make me want to scream.

This is pretty much why I gave up on having female friends almost completely at some point. I can't deal with shit like "You're a really pretty girl, you would look good in a dress/bikini/whatever" no, just NO leavemealoneyoucrazypeople...

 

9 hours ago, aussiekirkland said:

Not to mention of my friends was a lesbian and wasn't allowed to take a girl, so she took a gay guy so they could share the pain of homophobic private schools together. I couldn't even believe that rule existed, it was absolutely disgusting.

Was that recent? I can imagine stuff like that happening like back when I was at school (conservative small town, late last century), but nowadays I'd kind of expect people to know better...

[Cassiopeia]

On 1/17/2017 at 8:45 PM, SoulWolf said:

I've just recently realized that I think I understand why I've had so much trouble with people staring at me oddly....people stare more. It's like they're trying to figure out what the hell I am (why do they even want to know that badly?

 

That's so awkward from the other way around as well. I don't know how many times I had to explain as a teenager that no, I'm not hatin', I'm just really gay.  

Since then I have learned how to admire people a bit less obviously.

 

On 1/18/2017 at 11:43 AM, aussiekirkland said:

As someone who was bullied into shaving at only 11 I second this.

Spoiler

 

I think they started to bully me for having leg hair when I was around 9? Anyway, because of how embarrasing they made the whole body hair issue, I did not really dared to talk about it because I felt like a freak. I started to use my dad's razor in secret, but then I got caught with the little nicks and was taken along to the beautician with my mum. 

Sharing razors is a fucking terrible idea, AND 9 years old me wasn't exactly skilled with them...but unfortunately I was really good at climbing, so the top of the 2 meters tall cupboard wasn't exactly a safe spot for the razor. 

 

cw: razors

[SoulWolf]

49 minutes ago, Cassiopeia said:

That's so awkward from the other way around as well. I don't know how many times I had to explain as a teenager that no, I'm not hatin', I'm just really gay.  

Since then I have learned how to admire people a bit less obviously.

They might be admiring me? OK, I like that theory, I think I'll stick with that.

 

The pressure to start shaving thing is ridiculous too. One of the girls in my class actually said many years later that when she heard that all girls have to shave, she thought she was supposed to shave everything... legs, arms, hands, toes... everything. I laughed because I had also wondered about that. It's like... who starts these things even? Just some random girl hears that one of her elders shaves, and then she decides to share this "incredible wisdom" with everyone else and it snowballs from there? It has to start with an older person at some point, right? So are parents actually telling their kids to shave or what?

[Ace of Amethysts]

@SoulWolf My mum tries to tell me to shave all the time. "It won`t hurt you" That`s not what I have a problem with, OK? It`s the fact that people think Leg/Underarm Hairlessness is Feminine^TM I take issue with.

[aussiekirkland]

13 hours ago, SoulWolf said:

Was that recent? I can imagine stuff like that happening like back when I was at school (conservative small town, late last century), but nowadays I'd kind of expect people to know better...

Actually it was recent, just over a year ago. That's why I couldn't believe it. My school was incredibly backwards though, given it was a religious private school.

[Ugh...]

7 hours ago, SoulWolf said:

So are parents actually telling their kids to shave or what?

I tried to shave before my mother told me about it. I kinda did for fun when I was like 10 or something, also because I thought I was more hairy then other children. When she knew about it she simply convinced me to wait a couple of years before shaving and told me how to do it safelly if I really wanted to do it. But now I barely shave and she couldn't care less. (my mom doesn't like the social construct of feminity either)

[Snapdragon]

On 1/19/2017 at 9:31 PM, Ace of Amethysts said:

@SoulWolf My mum tries to tell me to shave all the time. "It won`t hurt you" That`s not what I have a problem with, OK? It`s the fact that people think Leg/Underarm Hairlessness is Feminine^TM I take issue with.

Truth! It's pretty messed up.

I personally feel gross when I haven't shaved, but that doesn't apply to everyone and the fact that it's shoved down the throats of people who aren't cool with it pisses me off.

[Dodgypotato]

5 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Truth! It's pretty messed up.

I personally feel gross when I haven't shaved, but that doesn't apply to everyone and the fact that it's shoved down the throats of people who aren't cool with it pisses me off.

Yep. There have been videos of people asking random people how they feel about women not shaving their armpits. And they often immediately reply, "It's gross!" or something along those lines. And then they get asked, "What about men?" And they reply it's normal or fine or whatever. But then when asked, they can't explain what the difference is. They can't explain why it's fine on men but not on women. It's literally the same thing in the same place. It's not as if armpits are different on men than women either. It's not unfeminine, as lots of people think, there is no difference at all! D:

[Untamed Heart]

I think that's the problem I have with it - men and women aren't different species and if we grow hair somewhere, it's likely meant to be there.

I really hate it as well when dressing for comfort/wanting to be natural because of the issues mentioned in this thread is seen as laziness.

Also, I got told by a misogynistic "friend" I had years ago (OK, I did have a big crush on him and spent a lot of time with him because of that, but part of what finally turned me off him was realising he basically had no respect for women), that he liked women who "took care of themselves" - meaning wearing makeup and feminine clothes, not being too fat etc. Basically people willing to put more effort into themselves than he was   

I get that actual self care can help you be more attractive, but self care and getting dolled up specifically to attract a mate are two different things, even though they can go together.

[Kojote]

I do not like the prospect of stuff being intrinsically masculine or feminine at all. I used to be really opposed to all things fem(TM) when I was younger, cause I'm AFAB. No crying, no dresses, no pink, no dolls, no nothing. Still, I used makeup to manage my acne. I shaved because I liked the smoothness of my skin and I had really really really long hair. I liked those things, but I always felt a bit conflicted about them. Over time, I learned that swimming against the stream is still putting the stream in the center of your worldview. Instead of, you know... yourself. So what if I liked shaving or used make up or liked my hair long back when I was little? Why are those female-only anyway? Why should I have to go against all of those things to "prove" that I'm Agender? 

 

I should just like and do and have whatever makes me happy. No matter it's fem/masc coding. You want to doll up and party hard to feel good about yourself? That's fine, have a great night~ You really don't wanna bother shaving, hate make up and would rather spend a quite night at home with a good book to feel at peace? You go girl =) 
Why should one form of self-care be overall superior to another. Society be weird

 

On 19.1.2017 at 2:17 PM, SoulWolf said:

This is pretty much why I gave up on having female friends almost completely at some point. I can't deal with shit like "You're a really pretty girl, you would look good in a dress/bikini/whatever" no, just NO leavemealoneyoucrazypeople...

I had (male) friends who'd say stuff like that and I'd always tease back like this:
"you'd look so pretty in a dress"
"so you like dresses"
"yeah"
"then why don't you wear it ;D"
"wha.. no.. that's..I'd feel awkward"
"exactly!" 

I've also worn suits to formal stuff like weddings before. You get a few side eyes, but overall it's not a big deal. 
That being said, I have really liberal friends. Most of my hetero cis guy friends have no problem kissing each other or wearing dresses for fun or showing up at a Rocky Horror picture party in a corset! They do tease me about my lack of femininity but in a friendly banter type of way and I usually take it as a compliment  

[SoulWolf]

8 hours ago, Kojote said:

I had (male) friends who'd say stuff like that and I'd always tease back like this:
"then why don't you wear it ;D"

Hahaha, I do this too! I try to make them as uncomfortable as possible so that they never do it again.

 

8 hours ago, Kojote said:

That being said, I have really liberal friends. Most of my hetero cis guy friends have no problem kissing each other or wearing dresses for fun or showing up at a Rocky Horror picture party in a corset! They do tease me about my lack of femininity but in a friendly banter type of way and I usually take it as a compliment  

Wow, you have awesome friends.

 

8 hours ago, Kojote said:

I used to be really opposed to all things fem(TM) when I was younger, cause I'm AFAB. No crying, no dresses, no pink, no dolls, no nothing.

Same! I still hate crying when anyone can see me, though it's less bad than it used to be, and I used to despise pink. I've recently started to discover that certain shades of pink can actually be really awesome, so I guess I'm getting over that.

 

I've also never really understood the concept of certain things and activities being masculine or feminine, or why people make gendered assumptions about people based on what things and activities they enjoy. And by not understood I mean it literally makes no sense, even if people try to explain it to me. If they make a list of things, saying these are feminine and these are masculine, I'm like... why? What is the point of even categorizing them like that at all? It's just an unnecessary complication. Seriously, how does anyone in the entire world benefit in any way whatsoever from categorizing things like that?

[DannyFenton123]

I've been called an 'asexual feminist' in my high school on account of my unshaven leg hair, which I assume was meant to be taken as an insult rather than a statement of fact. I do remember one girl asking why I had leg hair, like she was genuinely confused, and I just shrugged and said I couldn't be bothered.

 

So glad I never have to take PE again. Not only did I suck at it, the uniform was wayy too short for my jeans-and-hoodie senses and all the boys were creepy.

[Ace of Amethysts]

I have CP in my legs so exercise is exhausting for me.

[TheAP]

I don't try that much to be feminine. I don't wear makeup, except on very special occasions, and dress very casually. I don't shave in the winter, except for occasionally my armpits. I do shave every once in a while in the summer, because I feel less "judged" that way. But mostly I care more about being comfortable than looking good.

 

My attitude toward femininity is very simple. If you want to be feminine, do. If you don't want to be feminine, don't. No one should be judged either way.

[Holmbo]

I shaved my legs and armpits for many years. Still shave under the arms cause I get less sweaty then. But the legs is much more seldom. It's weird because the hair on my bottom legs is much darker and coarser than on the rest of my body. I wonder if it gets like that from being shaved of so any time and if I'd just kept it it would have been soft and light still.

 

I feel like everyone should be allowed decide how much hair they keep or remove. I've never felt this is just a female problem though. After all most men are pressured to shave their face every day, that's much more work than shaving your legs (I imagine). In recent years there are more beards around than there used to so maybe social pressure about clean shaveness is relaxing a bit. But still I'm sure it's not a choice for many. Especially for those who might be target for islamophobia. Anyways that was kinda OT.

Back to femininity. In the recent year I've gone into a very femenine style. I'm saving out my hair longer than it's ever been before and putting it in different braided hair dos. And I've started wearing a dress almost every day. That is mostly because of comfort though. I got tired of finding pants that looked good and was comfortable and that would cover my ass at all times. Dresses with flowy skirts and soft tights underneath is much better. I miss the pockets though

[Confidential_Con]

I used to shave a lot back before I knew that being trans or nonbinary was a thing; I knew that I was uncomfortable in my body, but didn't know how to fix it (and had some texture-related sensory issues), so I snuck my dad's razors and shaved. Dry, because I hated the smell of shaving cream, and which apparently was pretty dangerous because I didn't really know what I was doing.

 

Now that I don't really ID as female anymore, I don't shave; partly because it's easier, partly as a way of saying, if only to myself, that I'm not a part of any of that anymore. Only time it causes problems is when I want to wear a sleeveless shirt; I still feel awkward showing armpit hair, so for my own peace of mind I shave that one the very rare occasion I wear something sleeveless.

[DeltaAro]

On 1/28/2017 at 10:05 PM, Holmbo said:

I feel like everyone should be allowed decide how much hair they keep or remove.

Though there is one objective argument about shaving I can come up with. But it's against shaving.

Most shaving is bad for the environment. Razor cartridges are impossible to recycle.

[Holmbo]

11 hours ago, DeltaV said:

Though therhoure is one objective argumentl about shaving I can come up with. But it's against shaving.

Most shaving is bad for the environment. Razor cartridges are impossible to recycle.

Good point. 

Maybe if you just use an old fashion razer that's just a blade?

[Untamed Heart]

Like Sweeney Todd!  

[DeltaAro]

Spoiler

Don't cut yourself!

 

I should really watch this movie...

[Ettina]

I have never shaved, and only worn makeup on Halloween. I also don't wear a bra.

 

In my case those are all choices made for me by my sensory processing issues, but it does mean that I hate the idea that you're 'supposed' to do those things (and even having a disability-related reason isn't enough for some people to give it up?).

[JoanieDark]

I stopped shaving my legs in high school for a really stupid reason--I despise the feeling of jeans on bare skin. I'm enough of a self-centered person that no relative could nag me into shaving, cuz I didn't want gross legs, dammit! It was a lot easier to avoid a lot of other mandatory tasks placed upon the female class by the patriarchy after that.

[Queen of Spades]

Speaking for myself, I shave my armpits, legs, arms and certain parts of my private area because I want to do it, not because I'm supposed to. I find hair in those places an eye-sore. I'd do it even if I lived on my own on a remote island.   

[SamwiseLovesLife]

On 16/01/2017 at 4:34 AM, Ace of Amethysts said:

A while back I made an AVEN thread where I said I disagreed with underarm shaving because the fact that society kind of wants females to do it because it`s seen as feminine thing to shave off hair people rarely see in the first place irked me.

Saaaame I totally think you should do what makes you happy, but I hate the double standard.

 

On 19/01/2017 at 3:43 AM, aussiekirkland said:

Prom/ball culture is a huuuuge thing in Australia. It's so gross and gendered! Sure a girl could wear a suit, if they wanted to be ridiculed. Not to mention of my friends was a lesbian and wasn't allowed to take a girl, so she took a gay guy so they could share the pain of homophobic private schools together.

This is such a shame I like that they went as beards though. In the UK no one gives af. If anyone's homophobic, they're the odd ones out and are frowned on by everyone else

[artemis]

I stopped shaving about two years ago. While I identify as nb I'm in the closet so people think I'm a girl. My younger sister nags me about it sometimes, says that it's 'embarrassing' for her, but my mom told her to stop since it only effects me