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What counts as LGBT

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Just now, aroMa(n)tisse said:

@Vega How about saying at the very beginning that you're neither straight nor gay and explaining why this is possible?

If I feel comfortable coming out to someone, I usually do something like that.

The problem comes up when you really don't want to get into an argument about aromanticism/asexuality. At least I have a few relatives who are OK with LGBT but don't believe something like aro/aceness is real.

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13 minutes ago, Vega said:

That's definitely true. Though I do think that often, if you say you're not straight the majority of people will just assume you're gay.

Yeah, probably... All the more in favor for Rising Sun big-group. 

You could still go LGBTQIA or at least LGBTQ+ 

Sadly, we're still not at a point in time, were you won't have to explain yourself most of the time.... maybe some day. 

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5 minutes ago, Kojote said:

Yeah, probably... All the more on favor for Rising Sun big-group. 

You could still go LGBTQIA or at least LGBTQ+ 

Sadly, we're still not at a point in time, were you won't have to explain yourself most of the time.... maybe some day. 

Agreed. I try to use the longer LGBTQIAP when I'm not in aro or ace-specific spaces anyway.

It just sucks knowing that your relatives could very likely accept any sexual orientation except asexuality. (well.. or polyamory, apparently that too is "too strange" but that's a bit off-topic...)

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6 minutes ago, Vega said:

It just sucks knowing that your relatives could very likely accept any sexual orientation except asexuality. (well.. or polyamory, apparently that too is "too strange" but that's a bit off-topic...)

 I get what you mean
I could probably get away with anything else, including ace too, but aro (or poly, really anything that excludes a single romantic partner) are just "too alien", which is why my family will never know (but yeah, i'm diverging from the main topic here, too)

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3 minutes ago, Kojote said:

 I get what you mean
I could probably get away with anything else, including ace too, but aro (or poly, really anything that excludes a single romantic partner) are just "too alien", which is why my family will never know (but yeah, i'm diverging from the main topic here, too)

Let's just hope one day you can just bring a boy or girl or nonbinary person or nobody home and none of it will be in any way weird.

I guess until that happens we just have to stay together as a community and all try to fight for our rights.

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@Vega Could you please give an example of a political right that is denied in a developed country on the basis of aromanticism or asexuality?

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9 minutes ago, aroMa(n)tisse said:

@Vega Could you please give an example of a political right that is denied in a developed country on the basis of aromanticism or asexuality?

Not talking about political rights (excluding those that make life crappier for all single people.)

I'm talking about shitty relatives who talk about how open minded they are but who constantly invalidate my identity and who i could never come out to.

And also on general aro-/acephobia that isn't in law but rather in societal attitudes.

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I just quickly want to thank everyone for being considerate, politely agreeing or disagreeing and genuinely discussing this sort-of-a buffer zone for LGBT+. Once again if you think I (or anyone) am/is wrong, good.

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@Vega Well, there's a difference between a visibility movement and a political movement. The former case is more like advertising of a peaceful non-political group of like-minded people ('those who prefer cake to sex', roughly speaking) and informing those who aren't in the group that it exists rightfully within the current law system and that charitable care can be taken of the group because its members are facing issues.

 

I don't feel 'oppressed' for my aroaceness, so if I were an activist, I'd be just an ally fighting for other's rights, rather than for my own.

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6 minutes ago, aroMa(n)tisse said:

I don't feel 'oppressed' for my aroaceness, so if I were an activist, I'd be just an ally fighting for other's rights, rather than for my own.

Oppression can be so much more than just laws, specifically written against you. Just because it's diffuse doesn't mean it can't harm people. 

 

I personally find that this short piece puts it in a good way:
http://witchstitches.tumblr.com/post/145757580372/western-society-is-based-around-you-getting

 

Granted, this still isn't a problem to all aros, but it can be a real issue that feels oppressive to some. 

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I think there's also activism for visibility, as well as for changing social attitudes. Kind of like what the gay movement does with commenting on negative or absent depictions of homosexuality in the media. Sure, it's not anywhere as serious as people getting murdered and I'm certainly not trying to say it is. But things like popular culture do affect the way people are treated.

I agree, in that I don't feel like I'm being oppressed for being ace or aro. But I also wasted ten years of my life hating myself because I thought I was broken or fucked up because there was no ace representation anywhere and I think just knowing what you are is important and so we do need more aro representation because without it, the only message we get is "you are a freak and less of a human because you don't feel what is supposed to be universal."

Not saying we have it "worse" than gay/bi/trans people by any means but that doesn't mean we don't also need activism.

 

That's not gonna stop me from campaigning for equal rights for LGBT people or from trying to be as good an ally as I can.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Kojote said:

Oppression can be so much more than just laws, specifically written against you. Just because it's diffuse doesn't mean it can't harm people. 

 

I personally find that this short piece puts it in a good way:
http://witchstitches.tumblr.com/post/145757580372/western-society-is-based-around-you-getting

 

Granted, this still isn't a problem to all aros, but it can be a real issue that feels oppressive to some. 

Agreed with this though of course this also applies to all single people whether they're LGBTQ+ or cishet, and people in same-sex relationships also experience higher rates of discrimination in the job market.

 

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I wish I could "Super-Like" your post, Vega =D Couldn't agree more. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Kojote said:

I wish I could "Super-Like" your post, Vega =D Couldn't agree more. 

*puts hand up* me too

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16 minutes ago, Kojote said:

I personally find that this short piece puts it in a good way:
http://witchstitches.tumblr.com/post/145757580372/western-society-is-based-around-you-getting

 

Granted, this still isn't a problem to all aros, but it can be a real issue that feels oppressive to some. 

 

I prefer to regard discounts given to married couples as small compensations for making the effort to build a family (which is usually in the interest of the government), not as benefits :P :aropride:

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I think the LGBTQ+ community should be open for anyone who consider themselves part of it. As you have probably noticed, I'm anti-gatekeeping, as I think it does more harm than good to... anyone really? I think all sorts of aros and aces would add quite unique perspectives and values of the community, so I'm pro inclusion. 

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1 minute ago, aroMa(n)tisse said:

 

I prefer to regard discounts given to married couples as small compensations for making the effort to build a family (which is usually in the interest of the government), not as benefits :P :aropride:

Problem is, married couples aren't the only ones with families.

I've heard close to a third of kids nowadays grow up with single parents.

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Again, it's quite logical for a government to give a single parent an incentive to remarry because 'a kid needs two parents' 9_9

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29 minutes ago, aroMa(n)tisse said:

I prefer to regard discounts given to married couples as small compensations for making the effort to build a family (which is usually in the interest of the government), not as benefits :P :aropride:

It's not about discounts and financial benefits alone. It's also about emotional ones. 

If i work my 42h week and all my friends are married, investing in emotional bonds will be very difficult, since I wont have someone at home and my friends will have even less time, since they do (and friends are not considered priority). I've been told by a close friend of mine that indeed, asking of a friend what you'd ask of a romantic partner (sharing a life/making time) would be "unreasonable". Some married people really have no time for anything but their family, no matter their preferences, because their jobs and romantic life take all the time they have. The 40h work week isn't even an old established thing. It's rather new, world history considered (industrialization). 

 

It's not a problem if your content in being alone and don't need much, but it can be a very real problem to those of us who do want and need social bonds or who'd dream of owning more than a one room apartment one day. You know, people who'd like to own a "home". There's a reason the gay community wanted the right to get married and be treated equal. 

 

I agree, it's not a direct law against us, the system isn't set on going against aros, but it's still a reality and a problem, not only to aro's but really to anyone who isn't alone by direct choice. Living and Family relations get more complex in our modern times, but we, as a society, still hold to the same old laws we did 100 years ago... 

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I believe the 40-hour work week is roughly equally against all workers, not only aro ones.

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1 minute ago, aroMa(n)tisse said:

I believe the 40-hour work week is roughly equally against everyone, not only aros.

That's literally what I said though xD"

 

It's harmful to anyone who want's to have something else in their life apart from work and their romantic partner. but at least people with romantic partners have a stable social bond waiting for them at home. 

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^ Add to that being told straight out by your parents that "When you get older, friends will spend all their time with their families and leave you" and there's the knowledge that there is a large possibility you will end up completely alone because friends will no longer prioritize you after you leave your twenties.

I'm used to moving around and losing friends but I am legitimately terrified of losing the very few people who mean much to me.

And that's why I need a community, because my cishet friends just can't understand this feeling, no matter how sympathetic they are.

 

I suppose this is a bit off-topic, sorry about that.

 

 

Also, to the laws against single people: There's definitely stigma. My mother was never married, and was single since I was 4. And money was so much tighter than for those with two parents.
Not to mention all those fun things like "father-daughter events" that served to remind kids of parental abandonment.

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That your friends will have no spare time for you is not the reason to deprive yourself of spare time too.

 

Just make friends with those who're less busy.

 

Romantic partners are going to have a higher priority than friends no matter what the laws are. It's just how romance works.

 

Even if people are less encouraged to get themselves romantic partners, then they'll start prioritizing friends in a similar way (closer friends will be more important).

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That's not true though. My best friend, who works and is married, would love to make more time for me. She tries really hard, but I can see that it just damages her. She's completely exhausted after a week of work and she still has to make time for her husband. I've actually stopped talking to her about anything meaningful so I don't add to her baggage. I'm glad she doesn't want children, otherwise I'd probably have to become dead to her....

 

There are also other cultures, with very different family and friend dynamics. The nuclear(tm) family is a very western and a veeery cultural one and it is enforced by our current system. And it's a family model that becomes less and less true to reality. Mostly for non-aros with non-nuclear lifestyles.

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The main problem is still the working week length... it leaves little time for the family and friends combined, no matter how one tries to distribute the time among them.

 

Anyway, I'm making an unnecessary derailment again :facepalm:Anyone who thinks there are aromantics' rights to fight for, are free to do so either under the LGBT umbrella or separately.

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I've actually written a lot about this.

 

https://thisistheateam.blogspot.com/2016/02/aroace-separationism.html?m=0

 

https://thisistheateam.blogspot.com/2016/05/yes-hetero-spec-people-are-straight-and.html?m=0

 

(Note that the second post was written much later than the first one, and both my identity and opinions changed in that time)

 

We can ABSOLUTELY have a safe space of our own, where we can talk about the struggles of being ace and/or aro, and of course SGA, MGA, and trans/nonbinary aros and aces belong in both...but the ace and aro community should be separate from LGBT.

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