Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by eatingcroutons

  1. I don't think it's particularly sensible to refer to other people as "SAM-using" or "non-SAM". The SAM isn't an identity, it's an optional framework which people may or may not use to conceptualise their patterns of attraction. As for the "original" definition: 2015-era definitions of the SAM that involve forcibly applying it to everyone come from the time that exclusionists were using the SAM to discredit and attack aspec communities. These days it is well-recognised that the SAM doesn't apply to everyone's experience, and that it is deeply harmful to try to force it on people. I'm on holiday and not about to go digging up posts as examples, but I can promise you my experience of aro communities here, on Tumblr, several Discord servers, and elsewhere, is that they have all long since rejected the "original" definition (which, again, was created and spread by exclusionists) in favour of the understanding that the SAM simply means that some people experience distinctions between different forms of attraction.
  2. Are these the "concepts" you mean when you say the SAM refers to multiple concepts? Because that might be where we're talking across each other. Like @Apathetic Echidna, I understand SAM itself to mean literally nothing more than the concept that "a person may feel many attractions and they may not all be similar". What kinds of attractions exist, and how they are defined, is an entirely separate question.
  3. One of the things I struggled with most when trying to understand concepts like QPRs was precisely that explanations seemed to be contrasted against a much more restricted understanding of "friendship" than my own. It wasn't until I found the original discussion where the term "queerplatonic" was mooted, and discovered that it was explicitly defined in contrast to a fairly conservative USAmerican view of limitations of the term "friendship," that I felt I understood where people were coming from with it. I have no problem with people calling their relationships queerplatonic if that feels right for them, but am also very, very much in favour of standing by the idea that "friendship" encompasses far more than that narrow, conservative definition of what's allowed between "friends". My "friends" include the person with whom I've been wearing matching rings for over 15 years as a symbol of our promise to stay connected forever. They include the married couple I've been discussing buying a house with. They include quite a few people that I regularly have sex with, including one partner from a different married couple that I have an open-ended agreement with. In my view the definition of "friendship" absolutely extends to every one of those situations, and an awful lot more.
  4. Yeah, I agree that's where this discussion has ended up - and I agree that how people define different types of attraction is a separate topic to the SAM itself (which is just the concept that attractions can be distinct).
  5. Ah! That's a different statement then. You realise these two quotes were replying to entirely different things, right? In the first instance @bydontost says that she believes the statements "there's more than one or two types of attraction" and "romantic orientation can be different from sexual orientation" are both part of the same concept, and explicitly clarifies her understanding to be, "There's more than 1 or 2 types of attraction, so romantic attraction can be different from sexual attraction." In the second instance tost is replying to your comments about "split attraction" and "romantic orientation" being "interchangeable/indistinguishable" which... as far as I can tell literally nobody in this thread believes? (I don't know who Laura is but if you have a problem with what they've said elsewhere maybe you should be talking to them about it?) ETA: lol whoops, didn't notice page 2 on my phone.
  6. I'm saying that in my experience, the "split attraction model" refers to the concept that different kinds of attraction can be distinct/split, and I've never met anyone who has found that concept ambiguous once explained in those terms. ETA: I just tested this out on a friend who has zero connection to queer communities, zero knowledge of aspec identities, and has definitely never encountered the concept of split attraction before. It took me all of ten seconds to say, "If I told you some people experience different kinds of attraction as distinct - like they might be bisexual but only romantically attracted to one gender - does that concept make sense to you?" and he was like, "Yeah, why?" I asked if there was anything ambiguous about what I'd said and he was like, "I reckon if you said that to Fred on the street he'd think it was pretty weird, but nah, the idea is straightforward."
  7. It seems to me that Elizabeth was saying "non-SAM" can have multiple meanings and is confusing - possibly because that term was only mooted in the thread you linked to. I can understand how someone who doesn't "bother with" any of the communities where the term "split attraction" is used might be unfamiliar with it. I've also met plenty of people who've never come across the concept of split attraction. But in my experience it takes about five seconds to explain that it means "different types of attractions can be distinct (split)". The meaning is literally in the term itself. The fact that some people are unfamiliar with the concept doesn't make the concept itself ambiguous. Of course not. Only an individual can decide whether split attraction as a concept meaningfully describes their own experience.
  8. I read your link when you provided it in the OP. I saw people talking about how SAM is inadequate for describing all the complexities of human attraction/experience. I didn't see anyone confused about what SAM means or describes, in the way it is currently used. Ditto.
  9. Yeah, this - I've seen plenty of arguments about the limitations and inadequacies of SAM, but never anyone who finds its actual meaning ambiguous or unclear.
  10. Well you did ask for my perspective. Everywhere I've seen it used, it's pretty unambiguously been a framework for people to describe distinctions between sexual and romantic orientations. I agree.
  11. What have you seen people using "split attraction model" to mean? What does it mean to you? I've generally seen people using it to explain that they have distinct sexual and romantic orientations - often ones that don't match. I've always understood the split attraction model to be a framework for people to describe distinctions between their sexual and romantic orientations. If somebody says that they use it, what does that mean to you? If somebody says they don't use it, what does that mean to you? If someone says they use it, I understand that to mean that they make a distinction between their sexual and romantic orientations. If someone says they don't use it, I assume they experience their orientation as a coherent whole, not as having distinct sexual or romantic parts. Do you usually think of "split attraction" correlating with "having more than orientation," or no? I'm not sure how much use it is to people who don't have distinct orientations, so yes, I tend to assume those things correlate. (Regarding @bananaslug's points above, I don't generally assume aroace people use SAM unless they specifically say they do.) Does anybody have a source dating it back prior to 2015? Can't help you there! Any other thoughts on the dilemmas raised? Does it fill a lexical gap? Does it have multiple meanings? Is it useful? I definitely need some way to explain that I have a sexual orientation but not a romantic one, so a split attraction framework is necessary for that. "Split attraction model" as a term is concise, widely used, and pretty unambiguous, and that to me is more important than where it originated. I don't think I've seen it have meanings other than the one I've described above.
  12. To be fair, the reason the title has ended up in your branch of the family and not another is presumably due to reasons that are archaic, sexist, and to a large degree arbitrary. In that sense, aren't your distant cousins as much a continuation of "the line" as you are?
  13. All wikis come with a complete edit history - that SAM page was created in July 2018. If someone's Tumblr layout doesn't show a post date, you can always view the page source and search for the "datePublished" tag - in this case October 2016.
  14. That sounds like a great start!! But yeah in all seriousness - I'm sure your sister still cares about you, and wants you to be part of her life and not feel excluded just because she now also has a boyfriend, so I'd try not to worry too much about being a "third wheel". I've got cousins who are like siblings to me, and one recently got engaged to his long-time girlfriend - I was thrilled because I've already considered her like a sister for years, I love spending time with both of them because I feel like we're all family. Someone you love finding a romantic partner doesn't have to mean you lose that person from your life - it can mean gaining a new awesome person in your life!
  15. In that case learning to get over that discomfort should be your first priority. If you refuse to spend time with your sister whenever her partner is around, you're essentially going to be cutting yourself out of large parts of her life.
  16. FWIW, the term "queerplatonic" was specifically coined in the context of "queering platonic relationships" - that is, expanding the concept of "platonic relationships" to make space for non-romantic relationships that cross boundaries of (usually conservative USAmerican) expectations of what's acceptable in a platonic friendship. Which boundaries are crossed can vary; queerplatonic relationships don't necessarily have to involve long-term commitment, or a deeper emotional connection than friendship.
  17. It's definitely a lot easier to find clubs and groups via universities, but learning how to network and meet people outside of uni is a pretty important part of adjusting to post-student life. If anyone's looking for specific suggestions on methods for finding groups of like-minded people, here are a few I've used: Google your city/area name and the activity you want to do. Sometimes it really is that easy. Search Facebook for events near you - either browse to see what pops up, or again, search for a specific activity Check out your job's internal advertising spaces - there may be notice boards where information about clubs and events are posted, or a section of the company intranet for sports and social activities Check out the noticeboards and websites of local venues (libraries, museums, churches, town halls, pubs, cultural centres) to see what's being advertised - or post a flyer yourself! See if your city/region has a subreddit (a friend and I found most of our current D&D group this way!) or a Facebook page where you can meet other locals and/or ask them for information about specific activities If you see other people doing an activity you like, ask them if they know of any local clubs or social networks for meeting others interested in the same thing Even if you're not a student, check out relevant clubs at any local university - they may accept non-student members, or be able to point you towards equivalent non-university clubs I can probably come up with more but honestly, a lot of the time just Googling place+activity has worked for me. It's more of an active process than browsing the student union website, but it's very doable!
  18. My approach to this, with siblings and with friends, is to make friends with their partners! I mean, if someone gets along so well with someone I care about that they want to date them, chances are I'm going to like them too. This has actually worked so well for me that one of my brother's girlfriends became one of my closest friends, and remained so even after they broke up. I've been on several holidays with her and the guy she's now married to, whom I made friends with after they started dating. I'd recommend seeing what you can do to try to get to know your sister's boyfriend, so that you can stay a big part of both their lives, and both of them can be part of yours - rather than feeling like she's now part of his life instead of yours. Maybe he likes some of the same series you and your sister do, and all of you could watch those together?
  19. Hahaha, this is exactly how I feel about kids. I don't feel guilt so much as a deep curiosity about what kind of kid my genes would produce - but I don't think that's a good enough reason to sacrifice decades of my life to raising them, and I definitely don't think it would be fair to bring a kid into the world for that reason alone.
  20. I'm sure this varies drastically across regions, but where Iive there are absolutely heaps of local groups and activities to get involved with. I'm part of three sports clubs, I coach at another, I go to a Japanese conversation group every week, I play D&D in two different campaigns, and when I remember I go to a monthly board games night hosted by a local bookshop. That's just the stuff I do regularly, not including going along to specific events - and it's barely scratching the surface of what's on offer. If I look for local events on Facebook there are literally dozens a week, for all sorts of clubs and societies. And this is in a relatively small city - less than 150,000 people. Granted, most people I know are surprised by the sheer number of clubs/activities I personally participate in. But for anyone living in a reasonably-sized city, you should absolutely be able to find local clubs to get involved in (and I highly recommend doing so!)
  21. I'm just gonna repeat what I said on DW: If you were really keen to do this topic - which I agree is important! - it would have come across much, much better if it were proposed after there was an established Carnival of Aros, which had earned a trusted place in the aro community by addressing aro-specific issues. I feel that if I were kicking off an event like this, my number one priority would be to make sure everyone in the community it intends to serve feels welcome right from the start. Maybe you had time pressures that outweighed that priority; if so it might have helped to communicate why this specific carnival topic absolutely had to happen in February 2019 and no later, especially since you say non-ace people had flagged that starting the aro carnival with this topic could be a problem. Hey, massive hugs to you. I completely empathise with your reaction here. I felt and to a large extent still feel the same way about how this event was started. That said, I'm determined to MAKE this event something that's ours. Something that is by and for aros. Tost and I are trying to move towards that goal by hosting the March carnival and focussing it entirely on positivity around our aro identities. We're both fellow heartless-monster-alloaros and we're absolutely here for you 💚
  22. I'm gonna go ahead and bump this thread and say that, while I'm not in London myself, I'm close enough that I'd be willing to organise a meetup if people want to hang out.
  23. From the details linked in the first post: What's a blogging festival? It's an event where people are encouraged to create and share content related to prompts on a given topic. As the hosts we'll be promoting everyone's content here on this blog, and at the end of the month we'll post a round-up collection of everything that has been submitted. If you want to make a submission but don't have your own blog/website to post something, feel free to send it to me or @bydontost and we'll post it for you on Dreamwidth
  • Create New...