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  1. 7 points
    Nice to see some allos are catching on.
  2. 6 points
    While I had a fair bit of criticism for how the Carnival of Aros kicked off, I'm a big believer in being the positive change you want to see in the world. To that end, @bydontost and I volunteered to host the March 2019 Carnival of Aros at our new Dreamwidth community, https://aromanticism.dreamwidth.org/! The call for submissions and full details are here, but the theme we've chosen is It's great to be aro! and the prompts we've suggested to kick things off are: A time I was glad I was aro Reasons I love my identity The best thing about the aro community What things have improved for aros? How can we improve aro experiences even more? Of course you're not just limited to these exact prompts - anything you want to create about the positive sides of being aro is welcome. You can also post anywhere you like - just drop us a link by commenting on the call for submissions (no account required) and we'll make sure to promote your submission and include it in the end-of-month round-up!
  3. 6 points
    I know the communities are small, but can they just not? if the aces have a defined group that they are comfortable with then why change to '& aro' at all! The one determined person should just work up an aro group separately and let those who don't care about aros or who just want to talk about love and dating without sex have the ace group. If there is enough aros in the local community to support the group then a fair chunk of them are probably not going to be ace and may even be turned off by the connection to ace because of all the toxic lip service going around. Changing the name but not the behaviour is probably making it harder for aros everywhere, whether in physical groups or online, to develop their own communities and initiatives. New aros might find the 'ace & aro' communities and then still feel excluded because the discourse is so ace-centric which means they would have to work harder to actually find anything relevent to them. Thank goodness for this place!!!
  4. 5 points
    The Feed on SBS Viceland is having a special on loneliness. I assume once it has aired it will pop up on their youtube channel [ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTILfqEQUVaVKPkny8QRE0w ] So a review on what it covers: apparently 25-45 year olds are the loneliest (in Australia at least), the reasons given were generalised to regularly changing careers and high rates of separation and divorce, basically living/working conditions. No mention of the fairly standard issue of friendship quality dropping when friends get into romantic relationships. No mention of general discrimination of singles and amatonormativity. At least they did talk about how loneliness is directly connected to the quality of friendship and that the advice 'go out and meet people' is completely crap. It covers a range of friend making services that are fairly well known including meet up and cuddle parties, but I was surprised that there is a 'friendship hotline' and connection meetings set up by Mission Australia which actually seem to be forging found-family feels in people. I really wish they had quoted the studies but there were comparisons to loneliness being a serious health risk equal to obesity and smoking, and most people who are lonely get diagnosed as anxious and depressed (which is only trying to treat the symptoms not the cause unless the doctors are particularly perceptive and caring). All in all, it is interesting as an overview that could give ideas for further investigation (which is pretty much how all The Feed stories work) but it would more interest people here who possibly want to investigate ways to connect with future friends.
  5. 5 points
    I think something worth mentioning here is the death of the social club. It used to be that people interested in a certain political idea or a particular hobby would be able to easily find a social club in their area dedicated to the subject (assuming said subject wasn't considered taboo). These groups were frequently created around relatively trivial things like fishing, sewing, card games, etc but the communities they created allowed for the formation of close friendships, and local support networks that lasted a lifetime. In contrast, now when we have hobbies or interests we tend to turn to online communities instead. Online groups still help people create strong friendships, but those friends are very unlikely to be people in your own town or city. As a result, we've created a system where people can have lots of friends but no actual support network. Online friends are great, but they can't let you sleep on their couch when you get evicted, they can't bring you food while you're recovering from a surgery, they can't go to a party with you when you're nervous, they can't help you get a job at their workplace, etc etc. These are the things local social networks are supposed to do and a lot of research has shown that the strength of your social network can greatly determine your health and resilience. The other place people used to build up their social networks was places of worship, and while churches and temples certainly still exist, leaving them as one of the only options for social networking leaves out anyone who isn't religious, so they're not a good solution to this problem. The loss of social networks isn't an aro specific issue, but from an aromantic perspective, I think it's one of the reasons that creating in-person aro communities is so important. Aros are predisposed to being even more socially isolated than alloro people are simply by virtue of taking ourselves out of the dating market, so creating aro social clubs will be an important step in improving the wellbeing of our community members. I love the online aro community but it's not the only thing that's needed.
  6. 4 points
    Yeah, the examples weren't meant as a comprehensive list/summary, just as individual examples....and I used variations of aroace because it's different ways I perceive and might describe my own identity? Honestly, I don't think I feel particularly attached to any of those models, but I kinda use all of them based on what feels best for the context? So on one hand, I tend to use aromantic asexual separately to describe my identity when I'm aiming for clarity, such as if I'm trying to educate an allo queer person about a-spec stuff. I find this useful because people tend to conflate the two and assume people must always be both, or they assume aromantic is a subset of asexual. Part of what I like about the second model is its use for explaining things clearly when discussing stuff outside of the community(Model 2). Other times, I use aroace as a singular term when trying to emphasize the intersection of the two. I tend to do this more in relation to community discussions? Like, my individual identity of being aro & ace can be separable as I can generally tell which things I feel because I'm aro and which things I feel because I'm ace. But being aroace puts me at the intersection between the aro and ace communities and that's when it as a singular entity feels most relevant. Though, I also use aroace for brevity sometimes when it seems relevant to mention both(Model 1) Lastly, I am increasingly inclined to drop the ace part and just say I'm aro. I feel like being aro more regularly affects my life since society expects romance, but since I'm not in a romantic relationship then me being ace doesn't really come up that much (aside I guess from the fact I'm sex-repulsed). I feel much more closely tied with the aro community than the ace community. If I say I'm aro and ace, people are generally inclined to refer to my ace-ness first whereas I'd rather center the fact I'm aro. Therefore, I might only say that I'm aro, but if someone asked or it otherwise became relevant to mention, I wouldn't mind mentioning that I also happen to be ace(Model 3).
  7. 4 points
    I went to a convention last weekend and two of the stalls with pride flag products had aro stuff! i got a cute pin and if i can find the card i took from the table ill post it so anyone who wants a pin or something can buy one
  8. 4 points
    What have you seen people using "split attraction model" to mean? What does it mean to you? I've generally seen people using it to explain that they have distinct sexual and romantic orientations - often ones that don't match. I've always understood the split attraction model to be a framework for people to describe distinctions between their sexual and romantic orientations. If somebody says that they use it, what does that mean to you? If somebody says they don't use it, what does that mean to you? If someone says they use it, I understand that to mean that they make a distinction between their sexual and romantic orientations. If someone says they don't use it, I assume they experience their orientation as a coherent whole, not as having distinct sexual or romantic parts. Do you usually think of "split attraction" correlating with "having more than orientation," or no? I'm not sure how much use it is to people who don't have distinct orientations, so yes, I tend to assume those things correlate. (Regarding @bananaslug's points above, I don't generally assume aroace people use SAM unless they specifically say they do.) Does anybody have a source dating it back prior to 2015? Can't help you there! Any other thoughts on the dilemmas raised? Does it fill a lexical gap? Does it have multiple meanings? Is it useful? I definitely need some way to explain that I have a sexual orientation but not a romantic one, so a split attraction framework is necessary for that. "Split attraction model" as a term is concise, widely used, and pretty unambiguous, and that to me is more important than where it originated. I don't think I've seen it have meanings other than the one I've described above.
  9. 4 points
    Does anyone know if there are any existing projects that have created / are aiming to create any kind of aro history timelines? I'm interested in maybe, eventually creating some kind of timeline / reference page with some tidbits of aro history but I don't want to reinvent the wheel if I don't have to, so I'm wondering if anyone knows of anything pre-existing, or if there's anyone already working on something like this that would be interested in some help. Specifically, the kinds of things I'm thinking to include are: Timelines of various attempts at aro forums, including when they were founded and when they collapsed (including things like the [ace] aromantic forum-motion forum, aroplane, the first arocalypse, the second (current) arocalypse, the AVEN a/romantic orientation subforum and it's false starts, etc.) especially with notes on which were aro ace specific and which were general aro. The beginnings (and ends) of various aro activist efforts and resource pages (like ASAW, the now defunct Coalition for Aromantic Visibility, the aromantic wiki, etc.) Outlines of the three main aro flag proposals and when they mostly saw use The evolution of various aro community and related vocabulary, like "aromantic", "grayromantic", "gray-aromantic", "qoiromantic", "squish", "queerplatonic", etc. When and where aro characters have appeared in mainstream media (jughead, that one dude from the cassandra clare books) [possibly] early media coverage of aromanticism, if it seems notable, and misc. things like aromantic getting added to the OED I have access to most of the sources needed for a lot of this info already, the tricky part is just getting it all organized and figuring out how to work it into something for people to actually use and understand. Also, if it sounds like I've forgotten some category of events or spaces that you think would be interesting to include, please let me know! Other things that I'm not as familiar with, however, that I'd be especially interested in learning about if anyone would be willing to share their notes: Any influential aromantic pages or groups on facebook, reddit, twitter, or other non-tumblr or wordpress social media (I know absolutely nothing about what is or isn't going on on facebook in particular) Any non-english language activity Explicit canon representation of aro characters besides bojack and rafael (I suspect there have been some webcomic and YA novel characters by now, but I don't follow either of those very closely. Also, does anyone know if Bojack has any aromantic characters? I know they named drop the word but not sure if they ever link it to any specific characters, and I don't really want to actually watch the whole show) Also, if anyone has questions about aromantic history, or is intrigued by any of the mentions above and would like a link or to learn more, feel free to post a comment here and I'll try to see if I can answer them (though I might be slow) - any thing that gets me motivated to work on this more is good.
  10. 4 points
    my name is shy. I am aro ace and agender. I found out I was ace first. I knew that because I just didn't feel like I was sexual. I was 12 at the time. I let this stop me from believing that I was aro. I didn't want to give up romantic love too. Then I realized I didn't feel romantic love either. I had just gotten into a relationship so it was hard to realize. I am now Aro Ace and proud!
  11. 4 points
    Hey! I've had my suspicions about being on the aro spectrum for a few years now, since I was 14 and questioning my sexuality. I was confused for a while, because most of the time I would see the term aromantic used in conjunction with the term asexual, and I am not asexual. Furthering the confusion was the fact that I experienced squishes that I was mistakenly calling crushes. But yeah, I'm just now coming to terms with my odd relationship with romance, and I identify loosely with the term quoiromantic and more solidly with the terms bisexual and biromantic (I totally accept that gender isn't a binary, but I'm more comfortable with the term bi than with pan/poly so I interpret bi as meaning more than one gender). I'm kind of out as bisexual on a sort of "if it comes up naturally in a conversation I have no qualms about telling you" way, mainly because I pretty lazy and I don't want my sexual/romantic orientation to define me. It's just how I am, no different from anything else. No need to make a big deal out of it. I'm not out as quoiromantic, partly because it's harder to explain, partly because I am less certain of it, partly because it isn't really anyone's business that I can't clearly identify romantic feelings. So I was super excited to find this forum! I've wanted to explore aromanticism more, so I look forward to participating here!
  12. 4 points
    To be honest I think this is the view I'm coming around to, and what I didn't want to start ranting about earlier. I'm not ace, and I don't want to be part of the ace community. I want to be part of aro communities, by and for aro people, not afterthoughts tacked onto a community I have no interest in or connection to.
  13. 4 points
    Well here's an issue you'd think would be a no-brainer, and yet I have seen multiple times: "Ace and aro" groups and events need to just. Fucking. STOP USING EXCLUSIVELY ACE IMAGERY. Or like, primarily ace with one (1) tiny little bit of aro symbolism somewhere in there. It's irritating at best, completely exclusionary at worst- if I'm scrolling through something quickly and see big bold ace flags everywhere, are my eyes immediately going to pick out the one little word that's colored green? Or am I going to go "Ah, ace stuff," and ignore it? You can't just visually shove us in the corner and expect aros to feel included.
  14. 4 points
    This is definitely not an exclusively aro experience - I don't know if you're familiar with the Nice Guy™ phenomenon but it's a problem that a lot of women find they have to deal with from a lot of men. There's a pervasive narrative in a lot of media - and it is a gendered narrative - that a man who is persistent enough will eventually win over a woman he's interested in. I do get where you're coming from with this. I'm highly extraverted and have had countless situations where what I've thought was a friendly interaction has been interpreted as sexual or romantic interest on my part. I'm also very bad at interpreting unspoken or indirect communication, so miss a lot of "signals" that other people apparently find obvious. When I was younger I used to worry a lot more about "leading people on" by being friendly towards them. I tried hard to do things like call people friends to make it clear that I wasn't interested in anything more that friendship - using tactics like the ones @Apathetic Echidna suggests above, and a whole lot of other tricks I'd developed. I found it utterly exhausting. And I got to a point where I was like, why should I have to do this? If people would just tell me when they're interested in something other than friendship, then I wouldn't have to do all this guessing or worrying. And from there I realised I was putting all this mental energy and effort into protecting the feelings of people who were not being open or honest about their intentions towards me. And I was like... fuck that. When it comes right down to it, someone else's unrequited feelings for me are not my problem. Of course I'll be sympathetic if someone wants more from me than I want from them - I'll give them whatever space they need to get over it, or to walk away entirely if they need to. But I have no patience for people who don't communicate their actual intentions. I shouldn't have to coddle grown adults who aren't honest with me. So my policy now is that I am as friendly as I damn well want to be, and until and unless someone tells me they want something other than friendship from me, I explicitly assume they don't. And I can't begin to describe how freeing I've found it to take this approach. Occasionally having to reject someone who actually does tell me they're romantically interested in me is a billion times easier than tiptoeing on eggshells in every new friendship, trying to find ways to casually warn them off just in case. Sorry that doesn't really answer your actual question @oak but for what it's worth that's my personal rant on the issue 😅
  15. 4 points
    I don't want to abolish legally recognised relationships. I want to expand and diversify them. I want people to be able to form any kind of legal bond(s) with as many other consenting adults as they like, on whatever terms and for whatever purpose they like. I want the state to recognise and respect the terms of any such legal agreements. There was a fantastic discussion of ways to restructure and reimagine "marriage" on Q&A a while back - I'm not sure if the episode is still online, but here's one of my favourite excerpts from it.
  16. 4 points
    You might be aromantic if when you think about marriage you don't imagen who you will get married to, but other things instead e.g. getting to wear nice clothes, how nice the food will be, having the opportunity for a big family get together You might be aromantic if when people look down on marrying for visas, marrying for tax breaks, etc. you wonder why they do because those sound like very practical reasons to get married
  17. 3 points
    [ an extension of this previous thread now that that one has gone so far off-topic ] I'm trying to address, or at least describe in order to talk about, an intra- & intercommunity problem. In the ace & aro communities both, there's arisen a norm of talking about ourselves and each other in terms of "romantic orientation" and "sexual orientation" as discrete entities. This has been preferable for some people but not for others, and that's caused some conflict, which people have tried to address in a lot of different ways already (all with their own issues). What I'm trying to do, at the moment, is try to map all of those different relationships to different norms of orientation modeling. Here is the blog post where I explain more of why I'm bothering with this. You may want to go read that first if this post is confusing to you, but for those of you who already have the context, you can skip it. So I'm working on the following loose descriptions right now (in the list below), and here's my questions for y'all: Do you feel like you fit with any of these? Is there any way I could change the wording to make more room for you to fit better? Is there anything else I left out? Should any other groups be added? Should any of the descriptions be subdivided into more? Are there any other norms or dynamics I should take into account? Here's the descriptions I'm working with so far [work in progress, edited 3/24]: [Note: these descriptions make reference to two main norms: 1) the Western "sexual orientation" composite, which is generally understood to include one's romantic interest pool (if any) as a subcategory, and 2) the aro & ace communties' norms of talking about each other in terms of both "sexual orientation" and "romantic orientation," or the ROSO dyad.] It is possible to be more at home with the composite approach to orientation and chafe most against the idea of naming romantic orientation as something separate. One of the ways to end up with this relationship to these norms is to strongly feel that one's orientation is more “integrated” (or “doesn’t split”) compared to how the ace and aro communities now frequently talk about romantic vs. sexual orientation separate identities. In ace and aro contexts, some people may experience friction with the romantic/sexual orientation division and, when this relationship is strongly felt, they may need language to distance themselves from the community-influenced idea that their “sexual orientation” (or an orientation that ends in “-sexual”) is necessarily separable from their “romantic orientation.” For this reason, it could be that a de-emphasis on the identity suffix (or a different suffix, or an avoidance of suffixes) is what’s most valuable. To the extent that more language is needed here, it is needed to index a relationship to a certain context — a relationship of disidentification with the community language of distinct, separated romantic and sexual orientations. When they come up against this expectation, it may be useful to have a way of dismissing it or indexing it as personally inapplicable. It is possible to be more at home with the dyadic approach and chafe most against the idea of only having “one” composite “sexual orientation” in the singular. One of the ways to end up with this relationship to these norms is to strongly identify with the specification of multiple (sometimes "different" in terms of different prefix) orientations, which “splits” or otherwise diverges from the Western “sexual orientation” composite. In this situation, the separation of orientational identity labels along different axes — such as sex, romance, and more — may be very personally useful for self-understanding. What this relationship calls for is a way of indexing that divergence and distinction as a salient and right fit for oneself. When mentioning only one orientation labels, it may be useful to have a way of signaling that this one label should not necessarily be taken as a composite. It is possible to actually chafe against both norms: both the Western “sexual orientation” composite and the expectation in ace & aro circles of having a romantic orientation and a sexual orientation. For example, some folks would describe themselves as having just a romantic orientation, just a sexual orientation, or something else entirely off the romantic/sexual binary, not necessarily using those frameworks. This way of relating to orientation “splits” or otherwise diverges from the Western “sexual orientation” composite (and its unspoken sex & romance convergence), but for some, that doesn’t necessarily lead to thinking themselves as having multiple different, distinct, specific orientations along specific axes in the same way as the second group. Or in other words, it is possible to feel pinched or stretched by aro & ace community language that treats people as having both a “romantic” box and a “sexual” box to fill in. To the extent that more language is called for here, it is needed to index a certain relationship to a certain context — a relationship of distance from the common composite usage of “sexual orientation,” for one, but also a relationship of distance from the dyadic community norm of dual romantic & sexual orientations. When coming up against these expectations, it may be useful to have a way of dismissing them or indicating that they are personally inapplicable. People with this relationship to community norms may include people with an orientation specifying just one axis (ex. just romantic orientation), people who prefer not to specify one or more of the “canon” dyadic axes, people whose relationship to labels is highly fluid or contextual, and more. It is possible to not want to use orientation language at all, chafing against all of these classification schemes equally on account of not wanting to use orientational identity labels. I’d say I probably know the least about this group, owing to the fact that this topic seems to arise most in ace and aro contexts. Lastly, it is possible to move comfortably between these two primary norms and be willing to self-identify as called for by different contexts.
  18. 3 points
    ...I have stared at this for days trying to figure out how to apply it to myself, lol. I think I just don't fit well in any of the groups you listed. So, my problem with SAM isn't with the idea of multiple orientations. I have 2.5 - 3 distinct orientations (asexual, bi/pan/whatever, and ????grayromantic/aro-ish????). What chafes is more the idea of "splitting" all of my various attractions. I would say that most of them are convergent, though not cohesive. But not all of them. There's a closely-connected group of attractions that for simplicity's sake, I've come to just consider various forms of sensual attraction (yes, my definition of that is very different from the most common one—EDIT: and for the curious, see here, here, and here), and it's sometimes easier to refer to all of it at once with just the top-level label without getting into a detailed explanation. Or talk about aesthetic attraction or tactile sensual attraction specifically, if those are the relevant parts. The distinguishable components of kind of look like this: Sensual attraction = Aesthetic Visual Aural or Sonic (sound) Dynamic (movement, mannerisms) Stylistic (fashion sense, similar taste in art etc.) Tactile (wanting to touch, hug, cuddle, kiss, etc.) Olfactory (scent) ...and there are other (less frequent) components or sub-categories in there that I'm not going to pick out for purposes of this post. But these all tend to co-occur in various combinations, fluidly, as kind of a big interconnected cloud. I'm not saying that every component will always occur at the same time. But what I'm saying is that there will often be multiple categories happening at the same time and it's rather difficult to distinguish each and every factor that is present in any given case. It's more of just a feeling of liking someone, but figuring out why I like them takes quite a lot of effort. I guess to borrow your fruit metaphor from before, it'd be like carefully dissecting a fruit to count and label all the seeds/parts or something. As you can probably tell, aesthetic attraction is the most common and easiest-to-distinguish part of this for me, but also keep in mind that I've had MANY MANY YEARS to think about this and gradually come up with this understanding. The process of figuring that out has been somewhat unpleasant, as it's counter to what I would naturally want to do. I'd rather just eat the fruit. Complicating all of this, I also experience repulsion in every one of these categories! (To clarify, I mean repulsion as in very simply "the opposite of attraction"—imagine the way a magnet pushes away from another magnet's matching polarity—and most of the time it is a pretty mild "oh, no thank you" but it can sometimes be a lot stronger.) This is also very frequently co-occurring with any attraction I feel, creating a lot of conflict, very much a push-pull effect. So that is why I would not call my attractions "cohesive" in any way, even though they are strongly integrated. If I did experience sexual attraction, it would be melded in with all of this just as much as everything else, I'm pretty sure. I think this is why it took me a long time to figure out that there isn't a sexual component in there at all, although there was once a feeling kind of like "water with a tiny bit of soda in it" as an anonymous person once described what gray-asexuality can be like (I'm paraphrasing, see page 38 of The Invisible Orientation for the original quote). That feeling is gone now, though. All of this is not even considering personality or emotional compatibility factors, which are a very much separate thing for me. And over the years I've realized that attraction is... just not how I would describe any of my experiences related to that at all. I'll write more on that later, in a blog post. Sooo... I guess if you want to add another group, maybe Convergent pieces, multiple orientations? I think "axis-specific" is unnecessarily wordy and confusing, tbh, so you could drop that.
  19. 3 points
    hmmm.....well for one, I think the expectation to specify both romantic and sexual orientations goes for both aros and aces? Like, if someone says they're ace I'm generally curious what their romantic orientation is too, so I understand why people might be curious about sexual orientation if I just say I'm aro. Generally, if someone only says they're bi, people assume both biromantic and bisexual unless otherwise stated. Perhaps part of the problem is our abbreviated versions already incorporate which orientation axis it is, and we can't really abbreviate to just "a" and have it make sense, so an abbreviated form of "does not experience attraction" which doesn't specify type of attraction might be useful. Getting to your actual question, I don't consider it an obstacle? In general, I like the ability to communicate clearly so I understand why people might be curious and I am comfortable answering. It's mainly that I want to emphasize that I'm aro.
  20. 3 points
    I'm definitely not the first person on here to bring up this issue, but I haven't seen any discussions specific to it so I thought I would make one here. Yesterday my local ace meet up group changed its name to "Ace's and aro's". The reasoning they gave for this change was essentially "all the other ace groups are doing it". Now I attended this group's meetings a few years back and I ended up making the active decision to stop going to them because even as an aroace I found that they were so aro exclusionary that I felt uncomfortable being there. This was a consistent issue for them and while their facebook post says that they'll be providing separate aro discussion groups to prevent people from feeling left out, I'm highly dubious of their ability to actually be aro inclusive. This isn't by any means the first ace group to have these issue. In fact it seems like slapping the phrase "& aro's" onto the name of every other asexual meet up group is the hot new trend. The groups doing this have been getting all the same criticism. "You're not actually aro inclusive thought", "this name change is just performative", "You're only making your group open to aroace's not alloace." All of these points address very real problems that the ace "and aro" meet up groups seem unwilling to fix. However, what I've found when trying to point out these issues is that these groups tend to have exactly one very engaged aroace group member who's actually trying to implement aro inclusive policy changes while the rest of the community is at best apathetic to the idea of aro inclusion. This makes it hard to openly criticize ace "& aro" meetup groups because the one person who is working towards aro inclusion takes the criticism very personally while the rest of the group is unphased by it. So here are the questions I have for y'all: What are some ways that ace groups can effectively change to be aro inclusive? How do we criticize these groups without putting down the people who are making the effort? Do you have in-person experiences with groups making these preformative changes? Do you think these performative name changes make it harder for aro's to make their own separate communities?
  21. 3 points
    okay, i found two webcomics with one confirmed aro character. The other one is implied. First : Heroes of Thantanos : http://www.heroesofthantopolis.com/comic/chapter-1-cover The hero is aroace , it's confirmed here :http://www.heroesofthantopolis.com/comic/chapter-9-page-21?fbclid=IwAR23UH1f1EEw6nxinl6R0_t0tZBtPmJh38GIulA2cOFYAGiVBpvycrAf6eU Secondly , The griefer belt (warning for sexual content ) :https://tapas.io/episode/181380 Lars is implied to be aro gay. I hope i am not wrong. It's implied he is attracted to the "opposite gender" (and have sex with them) but is said to not like peoples "that way" (implied : in a romantic way) Again, maybe i am wrong. It's not explicitly said and i hope i didn't misread. (add webcomics if you want)
  22. 3 points
    Are these the "concepts" you mean when you say the SAM refers to multiple concepts? Because that might be where we're talking across each other. Like @Apathetic Echidna, I understand SAM itself to mean literally nothing more than the concept that "a person may feel many attractions and they may not all be similar". What kinds of attractions exist, and how they are defined, is an entirely separate question.
  23. 3 points
    Yeah, I agree that's where this discussion has ended up - and I agree that how people define different types of attraction is a separate topic to the SAM itself (which is just the concept that attractions can be distinct).
  24. 3 points
    I think a lot of us can relate a lot to you. I hear from aros all the time about how they feel abandoned by some friends sometimes (especially when they get into romantic relationships), and there's a guilt that comes with being both happy for our friends and sad that they've left us behind. I currently also have this issue, magnified by the fact that all my most significant relationships are online. I'm thankful to have a couple of friends who do not up and abandon me and who give just as much as I do to our relationship, so there is hope! People out there exist and it's a shame there don't seem to be more of them. I hope a culture of building stronger friendships is something we'll see in our lifetime. I don't have much advice since I haven't solved this problem for myself. Focusing on my hobbies and interests has been a way of distraction that has been rewarding so that's an idea. I also send lots of virtual hugs your way. It will get better; not to say that you're not suffering now, because I feel you, but holding out hope that one day our friends will understand what we mean when we talk to them about this stuff keeps me going.
  25. 3 points
    Okay, so… This is mainly for aro ace. I appologize. Bu if you're allo and have things to say, go for it. Also I hope this is not off topic, but it's about being aromantic while being ace. Like many (apparently ) aro ace, my aromantism is more important to me than my asexuality . Unlike a lot of aro, i discovered the aro community first… and i was disapointed when i meet the ace community. Let's be honnest, it's mainly for allo ace. And the aro erasure didn't help. I generally feel closer to the aro community than the ace community. I have no problems following allo aro blogs, but i will certainly not follow allo ace ones. ( i am in two (french) facebook group, one for ace, one for aro. I feel better in the aro one ) … and i feel like it's not right. I should not feel alienated from my own community ! I wish to reconciliate my aromantism and my asexuality , because while they are two sepparate things, my experience as an aro ace is not. It's either ace or aro, but i am aroace. Anyone feel this? (Sorry if my English is broken )
  26. 3 points
  27. 3 points
    I have some thoughts on all of this but I'm not sure where the conflicts are, so I will probably be stepping on someone's toes (which I don't mean to do!) So aro-spec as a word covers everyone including aromantics (if it is used as a personal orientation that is fine, but it can get confusing unless the person is clear and I see it as a symonym for greyromantic) and greyromantic is a word that covers everyone on the spectrum up to but not including aromantics. Then all the other labels that define how and when people feel romantic attraction, like demiromantic, aro-flux and pretty much everything on the orientations list, sit nicely under the umbrella of both greyromantic and aro-spec. People who don't want to dig into the nitty gritty of 'how and when' can just be recognised as greyromantic if they want, so it is both a broad spectrum definer and a broad orientation label. I got most of these ideas from the ace community as that is how the definitions were working for asexuality a year or two ago in the groups I was communicating with (well, a maximum of 1 year 9 months ago anyway). I just dragged my understanding onto the aromantic words and I haven't seen direct conflict to these ideas. I had no idea that things were narrowing in this way, but I have heard of some highly annoying stories of word misuse. As for nullromantic, well, I do feel bad about thinking this but I have never seen someone fight for this orientation so.....or even a good argument for it's creation.....basically I think it is a superfluous synonym for aromantic with a slight elitist edge. It seems to be trying to take itself off the spectrum, like some asexuals argue that ace isn't on the spectrum. I just have a big problem with removing stuff from a spectrum understanding because that means it is people trying to buy back into a binary idea. An 'us and them' scenario. I am respectful to people who believe this way, but I believe they are wrong and expect them to respect my disagreement. Orientation is very personal and very hard to sort out, especially with changing ideas and misinformation changing definitions, so I doubt there will be many compromises @running.tally
  28. 3 points
    It's okay, there are consolations to being this way "I am a horse for single harness, not cut out for tandem or team work. I have never belonged wholeheartedly to country or state, to my circle of friends, or even to my own family. These ties have always been accompanied by a vague aloofness, and the wish to withdraw into myself increases with the years. Such isolation is sometimes bitter, but I do not regret being cut off from the understanding and sympathy of other men. I lose something by it, to be sure, but I am compensated for it in being rendered independent of the customs, opinions, and prejudices of others, and am not tempted to rest my peace of mind upon such shifting foundations" -- Albert Einstein
  29. 3 points
    So i've been thinking about how aro activism could be better. at the moment it's been mostly online but i wanna have actual meetups in person. and i think it would be good visibility if we could have an aro group in a pride parade that was separate from ace groups. This doesn't feel like it can be obtained too quickly though, first i need people who are interested, second for now i think reaching out to ace groups would be able to help us eventually have a separate group. so far i've joined a facebook group for portland aces (like just today) and i plan to talk about this with them. so as a start maybe trying to have equal aro representation alongside aces at pride parades would be helpful but eventually i want to have an aro-centric group. this is because it's important for aro to be seen as its own orientation and not just a part of asexuality. Who is Interested? and do people have questions or any advice for starting something like this?
  30. 3 points
    I'm sure this varies drastically across regions, but where Iive there are absolutely heaps of local groups and activities to get involved with. I'm part of three sports clubs, I coach at another, I go to a Japanese conversation group every week, I play D&D in two different campaigns, and when I remember I go to a monthly board games night hosted by a local bookshop. That's just the stuff I do regularly, not including going along to specific events - and it's barely scratching the surface of what's on offer. If I look for local events on Facebook there are literally dozens a week, for all sorts of clubs and societies. And this is in a relatively small city - less than 150,000 people. Granted, most people I know are surprised by the sheer number of clubs/activities I personally participate in. But for anyone living in a reasonably-sized city, you should absolutely be able to find local clubs to get involved in (and I highly recommend doing so!)
  31. 3 points
    I think it's worth pointing out that this model makes quite a lot of aroaces feel torn between their identities, and even just the idea that ace and aro identities can always easily be separated from each other leaves out a lot of aroaces who feel that their romantic and sexual orientations are intertwined, so while I agree that this is where the two communities seem to be with each other right now, there is a third kind of in the middle group that feels very left out by these divisions. So yeah, I think this is maybe a good way to view what's happening right now, it's not a good way to view the two communities long term because there's more complexity to the issue than aro and ace communities just being entirely separate entities.
  32. 3 points
    I have a theory (and that is all it is because they didn't reference the research) that the detrimental health effects are caused by people who become stressed when lonely, like they develop anxiety or depression which then impacts their health, especially if it is a long term issue. So if someone isn't stressed by it I doubt they would show the same bad health symptoms. I know when I get stressed my body systems collapse. I swear my last year of university probably took 10 years off my life. @bananaslug I think a lot of the lack of community interaction was presumed to be covered by bad working conditions. I know in my community there are lots of community groups, mostly based in the sports hubs, local library and council building. BUT 99.9% of those attending are retirees because they have the time (which is wholly reflected by the advertising and the schedules). I used to work 14 hour days, I know several of my neighbours do 12 hour days, so when do we get the time for a weekly Tuesday 2pm book club? I'm sure if 8 hour working days were re-instated with a recalculation of wages the communities would be much stronger and healthier. Though that was something that shocked me in The Feed, that people had answered surveys saying they had no people to turn to in a real life crisis. I understand how it can turn out like that, but still it was harsh to hear the figures
  33. 3 points
    I realize I haven't said anything on this actual thread yet, only complained about it on Discord, so I'm going to go ahead and give my two cents. I very much recognize the history between the aro community and the ace community, and I appreciate TAAAP organizing this, I really do. I also understand why, as an "ace and aro" organization, they would want to make the first set of prompts an intercommunity thing open to both aces and aros of all sorts. But if I'm being honest, speaking as one of those terrible, horrible dirty heartless sex machine allosexual aros? Making the first month about the relationship between the two communities was, frankly, kind of a dick move. Let me put it this way: Imagine your friends invite you to come to a double feature movie. The second movie is your favorite, a little-known movie that you deeply love... But the first movie is one you hate, and frankly makes you uncomfortable, but all your friends love it. When the first movie ends and everyone starts talking about how much they love it, are you going to declare how much you hate it? Or are you going to smile and nod and try not to say anything? It's all fine and good to say it's ok to talk about whatever, sure. But what the fuck am I supposed to do? Waltz in on day one of the aro-ace carnival and be like "What up, the ace community is in many ways directly responsible for a good 8 years or so of my personal suffering that has left significant lasting psychological effects, continues to treat me like shit and frankly I don't trust allo aces further than I can throw a piece of paper"? Come on! The ace community hates me enough as it is, I'm not stupid enough to go and rock the boat. And starting the event off like this, this event that's supposedly by-aros-for-aros, with the first month being something where I feel like I- someone who desperately clings to the aro community because it's all I fucking have, because the rest of society sure doesn't want me- have to sit down and shut up and hide my problems, that really fucking hurts. Not to mention that it doesn't do a lot to disspell the notion that aromanticism is only a subset of asexuality, which is the thing that fucked me up for so long in the first place. Maybe it would've been fine if it were a later month, but starting out like that... I don't feel welcome. I don't feel enthusiastic about the rest of this event. I don't feel celebrated. I don't even feel like I'm allowed to speak up about it. I feel nasty, forgotten, silenced, unwanted, and excluded in my own community. I feel unwelcome in the aro community because I can't take two steps without being told Remember That We Owe It All To The Asexuals! Remember The Aro Community Is Part Of The Ace Community! Remember How Many Aros Are Ace Too! and TAAAP is really not doing anything to change this feeling. Also, it's perhaps worth mentioning that I'm not the only allo aro to feel this way about this event. I've heard the same sentiment from several others, but of course, nobody's really bringing it up to TAAAP's face because... Well, as mentioned, the ace community already hates us enough as it is and we don't want to rock the boat.
  34. 3 points
    You seem to talk about liking the idea of romance, but has it all been either in your head or from what friends have told you? I just ask because many people here struggle with fantasies about being in a relationship (I say struggle because they know they are aromantic and have repulsions to at least some of the things their brain wants them to do). The mind is a tricky thing. I would say try a relationship to see what happens but if you have indifferent or neutral reactions it might just make you feel more confused...but it might clear up some stuff? If we go by aromantic being lack of attraction, you do sound aromantic, but if you are uncomfortable claiming that label then don't. If you start a relationship though you should definitely warn the person that you are unsure about your romantic spectrum and so you might react differently than they might expect.
  35. 3 points
    It's your identity, man. I mean, you sound aro to me, but who am I to label you? Only you can decide what you want to call yourself.
  36. 3 points
    to me it's all about choice - amatonormativity doesn't leave room for that. it only shows one model that should be desirable to everyone?? and it's not. nothing wrong with a personal choice to have a romantic relationship, but it shouldn't be the only available option. other kinds of relationships and partnerships exist (friendships, queerplatonic relationships, alterous relationhips, who knows what else) and choosing them shouldn't be weird
  37. 3 points
    FWIW I did end up posting something for this, if a couple of days late: https://aromanticism.dreamwidth.org/3495.html
  38. 3 points
    I'm also not ace. Additionally the majority of the ace community is made up of alloromantics. From my POV the sexual orientation of alloromantics matters little.. I actually want to be part of an aro community which dosn't tend to assume asexuality as a default. I'd also like to see better descriptions of the term "aromantic" than this from AVEN. Since I see the likes of "aromantics are often satisfied with friendships" and "more than friends" as supportive of the "relationship hierarchy" implicit in amantonormativity. (You wouldn't find allo aces described as "satisfied with romantic relationships without sex".) Additionally there's conflation of romantic coded behaviours with romantic feelings. Another way in which this shows up is there's no concept of "age of consent" or "rating" when it comes to romance. It's perfectly acceptable to put any amount of romance in a book or movie aimed at children. Similarly sex is often seen as "private" whereas romance is "public". It can also be socially unaceptable not be interested in and enthusiastic about romantic relationships. Even indifference can cause problems for an aro. That's without showing interest in non romantic relationships (especially those which are also sexual.) I agree that the split attraction model may not be that useful for aro aces, along with other perioriented people. However it is very important to the exclusive varioriented: allosexual aromantics, asexual alloromantics, heteroromantic homosexuals and homoromantic heterosexuals. As well as being of use to variorinted people who's sexual and romantic orientations 'overlap'.
  39. 3 points
    The organisation Aces & Aros even admits to aro underrepresentation On a web page which promotes their "Understanding Asexuality and Aromanticism" course. With the course material itself being rather a mess. Even if there is some aro content it's virtually always from an aro ace POV. Possibly with "Not all aros are also ace" footnote added like "May contain nuts"...
  40. 3 points
    Hi everyone, Thank you for your comments expressing your concerns. I'll address them below. You're right, we aren't an aromantic group, and that's why we aren't adding "& Aros" to our group's name, since we don't want to promise anything we couldn't deliver. Our Aces & Aros conference is a one-time special event for WorldPride. We're still an organization for asexuals, but since aromanticism was otherwise unaddressed by WorldPride events, we decided to also include aromantics in our conference, and that's why our conference is planning an full-day aro activities track for interested attendees. If you know of any aromantic groups holding events for WorldPride in New York City this summer, we would love to get in contact with them! Please message me with their contact details, since I haven't been able to encounter any as of yet. As for partnering with AVEN, we did so in order to secure a conference space--as small as we are, we weren't able to do so on our own because we lack nonprofit status. We would love to partner with a US-based aromantic organization as well; however, we couldn't find any. When attendees purchase tickets, we'll have a form question asking which topics they’re most excited to have discussions about, and through that, we'll be able to anticipate and plan for which aromantic-related topics people are most interested in talking about throughout the day. We'll use those replies to plan our aro-track schedule. We are also in the process of searching for aro speakers, and while we've found a few possible aroace speakers, we'd also like to find aro and allosexual ones to lead discussions and give presentations. We are focusing our search on people of color, since the ace and aro communities are thought of as mostly white. If you have any recommendations for speakers fitting that criteria, I'd appreciate hearing them. Thank you again for bringing up the issues you had about our conference. We don't want aromantic and a-spec attendees to feel like an afterthought, and your input will help us plan a better experience for everyone who comes.
  41. 3 points
    Man, I have a lot of thoughts on this that I'm not going to get into now because it'd get ranty, but number one answer to your first question? Fucking talk to some alloaros. Actively solicit their opinions and input. Put them in positions of authority within your organisation. Involve them directly in decision-making processes. It feels like it's so blindingly obvious that it shouldn't have to be said, but the perspective of aromanticism as entirely distinct from asexuality is what's missing from all this lip service to aro inclusivity.
  42. 3 points
    just thought i'd let you guys know that in my philosophy of beauty class, my group is doing our presentation on self-love, at my suggestion. our thesis is 'self-love is the most beautiful form of love'. i think it's gonna be cool.
  43. 3 points
    I appreciate the attempt at inclusiveness, I really do, but... No offense, but if you really want aros to come to your event, you're going to have to try harder. Absolutely nothing about this looks welcoming to aros, other than having a few aro labels tacked on at the very end. It's literally described as an asexuality conference, hosted by Aces NYC and the Asexual Visibility and Education Network, with a graphic featuring entirely ace imagery aside from one word being green. Do you even care about non-ace aromantics? Do you even think of us at all? Does it matter to you that we exist? Because right now it really doesn't feel like it. I am aromantic. I am bisexual. I recognize the historical link between the aro community and the asexual community, and I love and support all of my ace siblings, but I am NOT a footnote in your asexual experience. My experiences, and those of other aros like me, are important and deserve to be recognized, supported, and celebrated without having to put half of them aside and squeeze myself into an event not made for me, hoping that maybe I can catch a tiny bit of support for some of my experiences (but clearly not all). Don't expect me to even think of coming to such an event unless some major changes are made to the way it's being presented right now. I do not feel welcome, I do not feel supported, and I'm also not so rude as to infringe on a space not made for me, so if you want aros of all types to come to your event... You're going to have to open the door, not just leave it unlocked and assume we know to come in.
  44. 3 points
    I mean that's simply not true. There are entire bodies of law governing the relationships between parents and children, which extend to rights and responsibilities in cases of adoption, surrogacy, and gamete donation. There are laws that recognise other familial relationships such as siblinghood, particularly in the context of inheritance. There are laws recognising relationships such as power of attorney, medical and otherwise, which people can choose to establish entirely independently of marriage. ( @bananaslug these are some of the things often rolled into marriage law that I'd like to see separated out.) Even in the case of committed partnerships there are all sorts of laws beyond marriage. In Australia, de facto relationship laws automatically apply to anyone who has lived in a "marriage-like" relationship for at least two years - these are explicitly separate to matrimonial laws, and you can be in a legal de facto relationship with one person while legally married to another. In France PACS relationships are again separate to marriage law - they have a separate legal status and many French people get pacsed (pacsé) with friends purely for financial benefits. I've watched pretty much every episode for the last ten years, but I don't remember that one in particular! It sounds interesting, I'll have to see if I can dig it up.
  45. 3 points
    Aha, this looks like the perfect thread to post this. It's a kickstarter-funded anthology of speculative short stories and poems, centered around aro characters and platonic relationships. If you're interested in submitting a short story or poem, here's a link to the submissions page. https://commonbondsantho.com/call-for-submissions/
  46. 3 points
    This so much YMBAI you love Arocalypse because you know you can always find someone who knows how you feel.
  47. 3 points
    lmfao I was backing up posts from my Tumblr to Dreamwidth and I literally posted this almost a year before I'd ever heard the word "aromantic":
  48. 3 points
    You might be aro if you don't understand how most people seem to have crushes all the time... Or if you thought you were just picky when it came to crushes..
  49. 3 points
    You might be aro if you mistook sexual, aesthetic or sensual attraction for a crush. You might be aro if you thought romantic feelings described by others must be exaggerated. You might be aro if you never notice when someone has a crush on you, unless someone points it out to you. You might be aro if you broke somebody's heart by accident, even without realizing it, simply because you underestimated the intensity of their feelings. You might be aro if you felt suffocated and overwhelmed in a romantic relationship. You might be aro if the pet names people gave to their partners, always felt artificial and ridiculous to you.
  50. 3 points
    Alternatively, assumed you were bi or pan because you felt equally towards all genders.
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